 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Kaizhi
Date: 2001-05-31 17:46
Hi,
A friend of mine bought me a bottle of Almond Oil...
it says,'
Pure Almond Oil Sweet
I know that Almond oil is used for oiling the bore..
but the word 'sweet' frightens me..
will that be attracting little 6-legged creatures?
or am I worrying for nothing?
Regards
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Author: Bart Hendrix
Date: 2001-05-31 18:30
That is as opposed to bitter. It does not imply that any sugar or other sweetner has been added.
The almonds we eat are considered sweet almonds because they have been selected for a minimum production of bitter tasting compounds, cyanide and other wonderful things in the seed (nut) which we find in many of their close relatives.
I have a forty acre almond orchard in the biggest almond producing county in the country, but I can't find almond oil at any of our grocery stores (lots of other exotic oils but no almond). Any one have any suggestions as to a possible source other than squeezing my own?
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Author: mw
Date: 2001-05-31 20:22
Below is a site (& company) which was recommended by John Butler, I have purchased some Almond & Apricot Oil (which are classified as NUT Oils) :
http://www.woodlandnut.com/index.html
It has also been suggested by John Butler & Omar Henderson (& others) that these (& other) Oils meed to be "cut" with something (receive an additive may be a better term) such as Vitamin E so that the oils don't turn ransid (on the clarinet or in the bottle/containers) after/awaiting use. I think that John & Omar are speakinging to the fact that Vitamin E acts as an "antioxidant" ... see below.
Here is a site I have found that looks like it's got just what the doctor, s scientist, or chemist ordered (e.g. the right type of Vitamin E) :
http://www.iherb.com/liquide.html
"Vitamin E - A Natural Antioxidant" - as in the body, vitamin E also acts as an antioxidant in vegetable oils, helping to reduce the speed at which oils become rancid. Thus, the richest dietary sources of vitamin E are vegetable oils such as canola oil. --- taken from from Link/URL below:
http://www.canola-council.org/nutritin/vitamin-e.htm
I am no expert, by any means, I am just looking for natural oils to (beneficially) apply to the wood of clarinet.
Best,
mw
PS John & Omar JUMP in & correct me where/whenever/however necessary! mw
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Author: mw
Date: 2001-05-31 20:24
forgive my mis-spelling "RANSID" ---- should be ran-C-id (with a "C")
Best,
mw
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Author: L. Omar Henderson
Date: 2001-05-31 20:53
As Bart has suggested, sweet almond oil is the oil used by many to oil their wood. The currently available "cooking type" almond oil is expeller pressed and further processed to remove impurities. Unfortunately, as with many vegetables and processed foods, some of the essential naturally occuring antioxidants and polyunsaturated fatty acids are removed by this processing. Although better than using the mineral oil products (the clear oil sold in little bottles with famous names on it - "the most expensive baby oil on the planet"), the "cooking type" almond oil is not the fine preservative for wood as cold processed, filtered almond oil (it actually has the almond scent). The latter is extremely hard to find and much more expensive. Actually, a mixture of several natural oils (scientifically researched and exactly characterized) produces a balance of wood preservation (and controlled moisture balance due to the small amount of water associated and bonded to the oil) and penetration qualities that almond oil alone does not possess. In order to mix several oils of different fatty acid content and differnt bonding patterns, and not have them separate when applied to wood, certain emulsifiers (of plant based origin) and antioxidants should be added. As suggested in clarinet folklore, some people never oil their wood - but again, they probably have never used a scientifically based formulation of wood preserving natural oils - the oil responsible for bad effects (and basis of the legend) may have been mineral oil or some natural oil deficient in the necessary properties! Natural (and I should say plant-based) oils have been used for centuries to preserve and prevent drying and cracking of wood artifacts and are still used today by museum wood curators to treat wood.
The Doctor
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Author: L. Omar Henderson
Date: 2001-05-31 21:11
mw - and all - I believe in "home brew" formulations if I know exactly what kind, what strength, what are the needed characteristics, and EXACTLY how much of each component to add. Vitamin E is a "fair" natural antioxidant (there are better ones that also have antibacterial and antifungal properties) but too much or too little (how many IU's - in what carrier oil??) can make the oil not penetrate the wood sufficiently or have too little antioxidant to prevent oxidation of the oil itself. Just as all oils are not produced the same (e.g. cooking almond oil versus cold pressed), vitamin E has one antioxidant isomer (form) - the L (levorotoary) configuration, but many vitamin E formulations contain both the L and D (dextorotary) forms - the D form only partially contributing to the antioxidant properties - so how much of DL does one add??? Why not leave this to the experts (and there are several that contribute to the BB).
The Doctor
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Author: Jesse Rogers
Date: 2001-05-31 21:44
A friend of mine gave me a small bottle that a pharmacist gave her. It is supposed to be
very very expensive this way but is also supposed to be the best you can get.
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Author: jbutler
Date: 2001-05-31 22:37
Omar and MW,
I agree with the above post whole heartedly. Woodland nut can supply filtered (pressed) and refined almond and apricot oils. (as well as walnut). I have a supply that I'm about to deplete and then I'm going to defer the the "Doctor" for all my "oiling supply" needs. I feel confident through emails and snail mails that I can not come up with the same formulation that he does. He is the EXPERT in this field. Also, I feel that he has the best cork lubricating products offered.
As a side note I've been using almond and apricot oils for years. (between the two I prefer the apricot because of the viscousity). This "idea" has been around for a long time. I apprenticed in 1975-77 and the shop used these oils.....that goes a long way back folks.
John
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Author: beth
Date: 2001-05-31 23:19
Here are the sources that I use to order oils for the soaps and lotions that I make. I've been very pleased with the quality of the oils that I've gotten from both of these sources.
www.camdengrey.com (company is Camden Grey and they're based in Florida)
http://addy.com/brinkley/index.htm (company is A Garden Eastward and they're based in either North or South Carolina)
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Author: Claude
Date: 2001-06-01 06:05
In Canada, (Québec) I buy it in stores where they sell natural remedies and herbal remedies. It is labeled « Huile d'amande douce » or « Sweet almond oil ». It is not expensive. Cost is $4.49 Can. for 250 ml. If you would buy it here with US $. it is a bargain...
Claude.
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2001-06-01 06:26
Many years azgo I bought some very expensive almond-smelling almond oil from the chemist ("drug-store" in USA?). It is the only oil I used on my clarinet. After about 6 years the clarinet and the remaining contents of the bottle smelt disgusting - rancid. The clarinet bore seemed to go slightly. (Is this polymerization?) I learnt my lesson.
Now through emails and posts here I have come to regard Omar as a world expert on the topic of bore oil. So from now on I will just buy and trust "Doctor's Products" bore oil, scientifically formulated and marketed by the expert himself.
Once oiled timber goes rancid the damage seems very difficult to undo.
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Author: L. Omar Henderson
Date: 2001-06-01 13:32
Dear Gordon and all - without going into the painful details, rancidity of oils is caused chiefly by autooxidation (action of molecular oxygen), bacterial lipases which free glycerol as a food source for the bugs, and unsaturation. The reactions free a complex mixture of volatile aldehydes, ketones and acids (the smelly stuff). These in turn can break down the cellular structure of wood over time - not a good thing!! In order to prevent the oxidation of the oils an exacting mixture of antioxidants - some of which have antibacterial and antifungal characteristics should be used in the oil mixture. Remember that the oil will stay in the wood for many years and short acting antioxidants may not protect the oils over such a long time period. This is why a DIY approach to applying oils to clarinet wood should be approached cautiously.
The Doctor
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2001-06-02 14:07
Omar wrote "This is why a DIY approach to applying oils to clarinet wood should be approached cautiously". He is such a gentle, polite expert.
I have translated his statement to be a euphemism for part of a saying I once heard, something like:
"He who knows not, and knows not that he knows not, is a fool. Avoid him."
The rest said:
"He who knows not, and knows that he knows not, is a student. Teach him.
He who knows, and knows not that he knows, is asleep. Waken him.
He who knows, and knows that he knows, is a leader. Follow him"
Im following Omar.
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Author: Eric Satterlee
Date: 2001-06-05 19:55
This always frustrates me to a larger degree than most clarinet related questions... To oil or not to oil and what to use if you do??? Volumes have been written about this... the answer is that if anyone could tell you what will work they would be in Tahiti with millions in a swiss bank acocunt... I have seen clarinets crack after 40 years of use and after 40 minutes of use... there is no answer, anyone who tells you there is is not going to guarantee to you that if you follow a certain proceedure that your instrument will not crack...
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2002-10-14 12:34
There are two issues here, both timber preservaion, and the attempt to reduce the likelihood of cracking.
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