 The Clarinet BBoard
|
Author: GenEric
Date: 2017-03-23 09:47
I am considering buying a Lyrique 576 some time next week and I was wondering what mouthpiece I should buy with it. Ted Ridenour suggested that i buy the RA-MT36 but i was wondering your opinion. I'm using V12 3.5+ reeds on a Vandoren B45 mouthpiece. Thanks!
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: TomS
Date: 2017-03-23 16:03
Just ditching the B45, IMHO, will be a big improvement.
Tom's MPs are very good, and you can get one at a discount with the instrument. Worth a try!
Tom
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: ClarinetRobt
Date: 2017-03-23 19:58
I have to agree about the B45. (Though many on here have had great success with them. Mouthpieces are a very personal decision for you. If it works for you, great. Otherwise, don't hang on to it because someone else said it was the best choice.)
Knowing how brilliant Ridenour's products are first hand, I have no doubt his mouthpieces are equally good. You'll have to try and make your own determination. For me personally, I steer away from 'corporate' products like Vandoren and like to shop 'small business' or boutique shops. But I do acknowledge many people make terrific products. Eg, have you considered a 5RV Vandoren?
Lastly, if a mouthpiece doesn't play in tune...it is worthless...no matter what.
Also, check intonation, LoL! Go break a reed!
~Robt L Schwebel
Mthpc: Behn Vintage
Lig: Ishimori, Behn Delrin
Reed: Legere French Cut 3.75/4, Behn Brio 4
Horns: Uebel Superior (Bb,A), Ridenour Lyrique, Buffet R13 (Eb)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Ursa
Date: 2017-03-23 22:43
Personally, I find the B45 to be a very nice match for the Lyrique 576BC. This clarinet seems too resistant for my taste with many mouthpieces, but just about ideal when played with the B45.
Take a deep breath, relax, and give your B45 a fair trial with the 576BC. Don't make a change unless you have a real need to.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: sfalexi
Date: 2017-03-23 23:35
I liked Toms rt mouthpiece.
But like the person just above me said, don't ditch your b45 if it's working. I hate the b45. I like vandoren, but hate their b45. Because it doesn't work for me.
But if the b45 is lacking or you feel it's not easy or expressive enough, I had no problems with Toms mouthpieces.
Alexi
Ps- I'm a big fan of the 5RV mentioned above as well.
US Army Japan Band
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Barry Vincent
Date: 2017-03-24 04:38
I mostly use the B45 on my Lyrique 576 and it seems to gives the best results. Sometimes I use the B45 dot but have yet to make up my mind about it. Other Vandoren MPs that I sometimes use on the Lyrique are the B40 Lyre and the M13 Lyre but the B45 seems to be the best for me. I consider it a very good mouthpiece.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: TomS
Date: 2017-03-24 05:10
Whatever works for you ... I think I was a little too snarky, too quickly. Sorry.
Yes. give the B45 a fair shot on the 576 ... I do like the closer facings that Vandoren offers, such as the M13 and M13-lyre ... B45 for me is bright with buzzy edge ... but the 576 has a nice warm sound, so the two might go together well, the clarinet taming the characteristics of the B45.
Tom
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Ursa
Date: 2017-03-24 06:26
Tom, the notion of the 576BC taming the B45 pretty much sums up my experience with that setup. Mr. Ridenour has stated that a certain working resistance is required to play the clarinet most efficiently, and both the mouthpiece and the instrument contribute to this working resistance. With the 576BC, the resistance is built into the clarinet, and does not need to enhanced much by a mouthpiece for efficient playing. The B45 responds effortlessly and with excellent control on the 576BC, and I prefer 56 Rue Lepic reeds on this combo.
Put the B45/56RL on a free-blowing horn such as a Selmer Centered Tone, and it's a recipe for total disaster for classical clarinet playing. The resistance just isn't there--pitch, dynamic, and articulation control go right out the window.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Barry Vincent
Date: 2017-03-24 06:37
Hi TomS. Yes, I agree with you. I forgot to mention also that I use Rico Royal 2.5 reeds with the B45 and this works well for me.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: gkern
Date: 2017-03-24 19:54
I'm not a fan of the B45, have two that I never use. I had been using a Portnoy BP02 on my Lyrique, which worked very nicely, but switched to a Rico Reserve X0 (now D'Addario X0), and love it. Tone seems to be a little more alive, and the transition into altissimo is the smoothest I have had on any clarinet. It is much more closed than a B45.
So, I suggest you compare the B45 with other mouthpieces.
Gary K
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Barry Vincent
Date: 2017-03-24 22:17
I have. I particularliy like the M13 Lyre amongst others but find myself going back too the M45 for the Lyrique mostly. I've also tried over a period of time, T Ridenour's Erocia MP. I found it's lay too close for me as I like to use the softer resistance grade of reed. With the M45 and a 2.5 Rico Royal I can get the entire range with good tone and response on the Lyrique.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: sfalexi
Date: 2017-03-25 05:40
Barry Vincent wrote:
> I have. I particularliy like the M13 Lyre amongst others but
> find myself going back too the M45 for the Lyrique mostly. I've
> also tried over a period of time, T Ridenour's Erocia MP. I
> found it's lay too close for me as I like to use the softer
> resistance grade of reed. With the M45 and a 2.5 Rico Royal I
> can get the entire range with good tone and response on the
> Lyrique.
There ya go. A B45 can work well with the lyrique!
And GenEric, maybe try a slightly softer reed on your B45. A 3.5+ to me seems WAY too hard for that mouthpiece! But just something to think about. Maybe a reed change can create a good effect and you won't even need to audition other mouthpieces!
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: CEC
Date: 2017-03-25 18:27
What Alexi said. I played B45s for a number of years and mainly used regular Vandoren #3 reeds. I think trying a 3 or 3.5 might be an eye-opening experience for you
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: shmuelyosef
Date: 2017-04-09 01:10
I, too, am considering the purchase of a Ridenour 576 in the near term...mostly because (in addition to just having GAS) I'm curious about what it would be like to play a truly "well-designed" clarinet.
I switched from R13 madness/frustration to old Selmer (CT, Series 9) clarinets about 7-8 years ago. I am primarily a saxophone player, and have enjoyed the free-blowing flexible nature of those. I am partial to medium/large tip opening, large-bore mouthpieces like the Fobes 4L and Jazz, and the Grabner K14. I mostly double in big bands on clarinet, and play folk music (Bluegrass, Klezmer, etc...).
I have heard two things about the Ridenours that are inconsistent:
1. They are very resistant and require experimentation to overcome this
2. They are free-blowing and flexible out of the box.
...hmm
2 questions:
1. Does anyone have experience transferring from setups like mine to this clarinet design?
2. Tom makes two Ivorolon barrel designs...the "C" for small bore mouthpieces and the "R" for large bore...anybody know which one is provided with the Noblissimas currently being offered on eBay?
jeff
Post Edited (2017-04-09 01:11)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Ursa
Date: 2017-04-09 10:46
Jeff: I play a 576BC with a Grabner K14e. The K14e is a superb match for the instrument: tone colour is rich and resonant; response and tuning are always stable and predictable, and the inherent resistance of the instrument isn't further tightened up by the mouthpiece.
For big band work, it's usable but just can't belt it out with the authority of a vintage Selmer, Conn, or Leblanc, no matter what mouthpiece you stick on it--and I've tried well over a dozen, with the best big-band piece turning out to be a Brilhart Tonalin 4-on-table. If your prime motivation here is to have an ebonite instrument, I found the Conn/Pan American 58N to be a much better solution for big band playing than the 576BC. However, if you're not worried about what the instrument is made out of, I think there's a strong case to be made for just sticking with your vintage Selmers.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: TomS
Date: 2017-04-09 17:13
I've gotta complete my set of Tom's soprano clarinets someday with the 576 and 575. It's on my bucket list, for sure. They will be collectibles some day ...
The good thing about owning hard rubber, plastic or greenline, is that you don't have to be concerned about leaving your instruments un-played for days or weeks at a time. Many think that wood instruments need to be constantly used in order for the wood to stay in shape ... With non-wood woodwinds, you only need to be concerned with little bugs eating the pads while you are away (my wife's beautiful old Artley flute!) ...
Tom
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: thereallukasj
Date: 2017-04-12 10:22
The Lyrique 576 is a great clarinet. However if you change your mind, the Backun Alpha in hard rubber would be a great affordable choice!
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: TomS
Date: 2017-04-12 17:28
Alpha is plastic, not rubber. It might actually be better in rubber, but you could not get silver plated keys ...
Tom
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: craigrhome
Date: 2017-04-16 05:37
I use a Vandoren M30 (13 series) with my Lyrique 576....I've had better results with that than with tHe Ridenour RE5 mouthpiece.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: J. J.
Date: 2017-04-16 21:32
"Alpha is plastic, not rubber. It might actually be better in rubber, but you could not get silver plated keys ...
Tom"
Ae you sure about that, Tom?
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: TomS
Date: 2017-04-18 17:31
I think you can get the Alpha in silver plated keys ... and that would not be the case if it was made of hard rubber ... the sulfur in the rubber would quickly tarnish the silver plate.
The Alpha made it's appearance on the market about the same time the plastic Bliss clarinet went away ... I suspect the "special" plastic material is about the same for both clarinets ...
I'd love to see an R13 or Festival in hard rubber or plastic. I don't know how Buffet could approach the marketing of such an instrument.
In my 2nd and last conversation, many years ago with Charles Bay, he stated he had some Delrin plastic blanks that he wanted to get Buffet to make into some clarinets ... doubt it happened ... I don't think plastic tools like wood or greenline ...
Tom
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: shmuelyosef
Date: 2017-04-18 20:35
Wood is not really such a great natural for machining/tooling. Delrin is great but does not easily make a shiny surface. ABS is often used for clarinet repairs of toneholes and tenons and is a good choice except it has sensitivity to some solvents. Nylon would be a wonderful choice, and I don't know why it is not considered more. Phenolic composites could be great materials if someone wanted to seriously engineer a better clarinet
Some interesting info here:
http://www.pepctplastics.com/resources/plastic-part-design-guide/basics-of-plastic-selection-for-machining/
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Ursa
Date: 2017-04-18 23:08
The Alpha in my studio is plastic, with silver-plated keys.
While Backun states that the Alpha is "made from a proprietary synthetic material chosen for its excellent tonal qualities", I've wondered many a time if it'd be better if made from the heavy plastics used to build the vintage Bundy 1400 and B&H 1-10. The Alpha material is so lightweight that the barrel and bell feel insubstantial and toy-like. Yet, I've invested in wooden Backun barrels and a bell and found the stock Alpha barrel and bell to be superior overall performers.
Materials aside, it must be said that I also wish the Alpha keywork could be fitted to the 576. It's much more robust, a bit more ergonomic, and, to my eyes, substantially better looking.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: shmuelyosef
Date: 2017-04-18 23:19
Pretty sure that the old Bundys (the Resonite ones) were made from ABS (a generic term for a wide range of plastics made from Acrylonitrile-Butadiene-Styrene cross-linked in different formulations for each application. When industry started making sewer pipe out of ABS, it's reputation declined, but as I mentioned, many tenon and tonehole repairs (some on my clarinets) are made with ABS rod, and (at least the ones I play) are completely satisfactory. In general, the ABS properties can be controlled between hardness/brittleness and flexibility/toughness. It can be polished to a nicer surface finish than Delrin/Nylon.
The old Bundys are very cheap...you can get 3-4 of them in good shape for <$100
Post Edited (2017-04-19 00:02)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: thereallukasj
Date: 2017-04-19 05:16
I wonder why people dont use a metal like solid chrome or stainless steel for keywork. It would be cheaper than plating with nickel or silver, it would bend less easily then the brass that most keys are made of, would tarnish less then either of them, and would never have to worry about plating eroding like what happens to many bass clarinets.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: TomS
Date: 2017-04-19 05:39
There are alloys of aluminum that are very strong and light ... not sure how pieces could be soldered together and not look terrible, though.
At least with nickle-silver keys it takes solder well, the imperfections can be polished out and the whole shebang plated ...
You might be able to totally CNC mill each key out of a solid block of aluminum, including the keycups and hinge tubing (??).
Naw! Probably an idea already explored ...
Tom
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: shmuelyosef
Date: 2017-04-19 05:46
Solid chrome is not a particularly good engineering material and is quite expensive. Stainless steel is pretty miserable to CNC in complex shapes, does not cast well, and is very difficult to braze/weld in unusual geometries. Brass is a wonderful material in these respects. Note that both stainless steel and brass are 'synthetic materials' in that they are made by mixing a variety of metals according to recipes (which vary according to the desired 'properties'...hardness, bendability or "yield modulus", etc). Stainless steel can have a yield modulus up to twice that of brass (i.e twice as much force required to deform an identical part made of brass). This is great until you want to adjust the key positions on your horn...which is often done in final assembly. Also, if your horn gets damaged, the repair often involves bending, as does fitting pads of slightly different thickness. As many of us who have owned quality horns made of the right kind of brass, there is a modulus where the keys don't bend from playing at all, but can still be bent with a reasonable set of pliers and levers...such brass recipes exist, and with perfectly reasonable sense and quality control can be obtained to make instrument keywork from. Many vendors buy a cheaper grade which generally means the properties are less well-controlled. If they get a lower-yield material, they just go ahead and use it anyways. High quality vendors order material to specification and measure incoming...this is part of the additional price you pay for the product.
An interesting point...there was a long time where 'student' horns were made with nickel silver keywork, as it was assumed that they would abuse their instruments, but didn't care about customization or fine tuned regulation. HN White (King Musical Instruments) used nickel silver keywork on all their instruments into the 60s after Seeburg bought them out. The King Super 20s are notorious for being a real pain to get regulated well (I used to specialize in getting these perfect) but once you got them right, nothing changed until the next repad. Now student horns use the cheapest brass and often this is the softest (lowest yield) so they constantly need attention...hmmm
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: shmuelyosef
Date: 2017-04-19 06:21
One solution that would probably be interesting is use of a fiber-reinforced composite that could be deformed when hot. The parts could be laid out with directional fiber in a mold and then the resin could be poured to set up. Would make nice looking parts if the resin were dyed, but the 'true believers' would probably not endorse it.
Alternatively, you could make keywork out of wood...or bamboo, that was resin impregnated...???
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: thereallukasj
Date: 2017-04-19 09:04
Great ideas and info shmuelyosef! One other crazy idea i just had was using all copper or bronze and plating/laquering them somehow with silver or nickel as both of these metals are slightly stronger then brass. One more thought everyone should ponder is why dont some pro brands like buffet or selmer or anyone for that matter start making clarinets with covered tone holes (i know it was done long ago but they are only found used now i believe and very rarely at that). If you think about it, it would make life so much easier for clarinetists both beginning and advanced as the number one cause of squeaks is a partially uncovered tone hole. Why dont they make bass/contra/bassett/alto clarinets with the pearl or immitation pearl key tops like saxes have to avoid the whole problem of tarnishing and corrosion of keys all together? Just some of my dreams for the future clarinets of this world.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: SarahC
Date: 2017-04-20 01:30
i have the eroica.. it is the best mouthpiece i have ever used. my collection was a selmer 120, a b45, a 5rv, and a yamaha 4c. the ridenour eroica ruled, hands down!
I have tried his RV10 (i think???) it was also nice.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
The Clarinet Pages
|
 |
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
