 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2017-03-20 20:51
I'm not a fan of ringless bells as they are prone to cracking if treated poorly or dropped. I'm not talking ringless sockets (which goes against reason in my books), but the metal bell flare ring, or no ring which seems to be the fairly recent trend.
As a large manufacturer, were B&H one of the first makers to use ringless bells as standard on their clarinets?
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
Post Edited (2017-03-21 01:02)
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Author: MichaelW
Date: 2017-03-21 00:02
Attachment: Kruspe_a.jpg (324k)
Some of my vintage clarinets have cracks under the metal flare rings which, as it seems, can't prevent cracking or breaking out of the rim in every case. And: Bell rims without ring are not quite new, see photo (C. Kruspe C-clarinet from ca. 1880).
Most German clarinets like Schreiber, F.A. Uebel, Oscar Adler, Yamaha, in the premium segment Wurlitzer, Leitner & Kraus, Dietz, today are made without metal flare rings, except, as far as I can see, Hammerschmidt and part of the Boehm models like, of course, Buffet- Crampon France.
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Author: Grabnerwg
Date: 2017-03-21 04:40
This is one of my pet peeves.
I hate bell rings!
Half the time, they are too loose and provide no protection for the clarinet at all. To me, they are a big nuisance.
Tosca bells don't have rings and I have not seen a flood of cracked Tosca bells come back through my shop.
Instrument manufacturers - save yourself a manufacturing step and some material expense.
Leave the bell rings off.
Walter Grabner
www.clarinetxpress.com
$200 Rebate on R13 clarinets!
Call now.
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Author: John Peacock
Date: 2017-03-21 13:55
Whether you like them or not, I've always been a bit puzzled by how bell rings are achieved. Buffet's are unplated nickel silver with a clear weld line; Selmer and Howarth (at least) have them plated. The unplated rings suggest that they are created in situ, but I can't see how this can be done without damaging the wood: you need silver solder, and the bits of the ring being soldered would need to be heated red hot, which would burn the wood. Although possibly the damaged bits are removed? The video of the Buffet factory shows a bell with fitted ring on a lathe, and both the bell and ring are shaped by a single pass of a cutting tool. But surely it wouldn't have been done like this in the old days.
Alternatively, it's possible that Buffet's rings are soldered before being fitted, as the plated rings clearly must be (or could they be plated while attached to the wood?). But it's not obvious how you could make a pre-existing ring be compressed uniformly to fit a piece of wood - the ring needs to lose circumference somehow.
Some of you must have actually seen this done, either by visiting factories or by working in the trade; I'd be fascinated to get informed answers to the above practical puzzles, as well as the aesthetic issue of why Buffet always kept their rings unplated when other makers managed to avoid this.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2017-03-21 16:09
Solid (unplated) nickel silver bell rings are formed from extruded nickel silver bar (with a ridge on one side), cut to length, formed into a ring and hard soldered, then compression fitted to the bell blanks, then the bell is machined to shape both inside and out. As this is done at a fairly early stage, the wood can still shrink and the bell ring can become loose. They're usually left unplated as plating a bell ring once fitted isn't always possible.
Plated bell rings are often made from thin sheet metal stamped out to shape, then formed and then stamped (crimped) onto the specially shaped bell rim.
Howarth clarinet bell rings were made oversize from round brass rod that was cut to length and hard soldered, then plated and then fitted to the finished bells on a press to compress them into the recess turned around the bell rim (as they did with oboe bell rings) and then the underside shape of the bell flare was formed. As this was done at a late stage, the bell has had time to stabilise so reducing the likelihood of the bell ring coming loose (but not eliminating it).
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: John Peacock
Date: 2017-03-21 16:31
Chris: thanks for the info. I'd heard mention of compression fitting before, but I continue to have trouble seeing how it can work. Your description of crimping makes more sense to me: I could see how one might make a hooped strip of exactly the right diameter to fit over a ridge at the point of maximum bell diameter, and then bend down the edges. But in that case, the maximum diameter of the strip wouldn't change. To achieve genuine compression of the hoop's diameter, you'd need to apply much more pressure so that the metal would flow sideways - but then there would need to be balancing pressure from the wood below, and I would have thought there was a danger of cracking. After all, these rings are put there in the first place because that part of the wood is thin and fragile. Are there any pictures or videos of this compression process in action?
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2017-03-21 16:55
With compression fitting of a solid metal bell ring, the bell blank (or finished bell) complete with oversized metal ring fitted into position (but still loose) is placed upside down into a conical metal die in the press, then pressure is applied evenly from above with another using a specially shaped metal tube and forces the bell and the ring downwards (where the diameter of the die decreases) until the ring has been shrunk firmly into place.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: John Peacock
Date: 2017-03-21 17:13
I still don't understand why this doesn't risk cracking the bell. Is it done before the bell is reamed out - i.e. fitting a ring to a conical block of wood?
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2017-03-21 18:21
Wood won't split under compression from the outside - it will split if there's pressure applied within the bore, such as a peg that's too large or poorly shaped and applies pressure to the inside walls of the bell. It's the internal pressure or expansion that causes cracks.
Think of a glass tumbler - it's got a tapered inside. That's like the die the bell fits into in the press, then the bell is pushed down into the die and the bell ring gets compressed as the diameter narrows.
The downward force applied to the bell rim is equalised all around it using a circular plunger in the press to push it down into the die. The wood is in compression and not in expansion, therefore it shouldn't split.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: MichaelW
Date: 2017-03-21 21:21
On old clarinets these bell rings become an issue when, not infrequently, they come loose or the wood under them crumbles. I have no idea whether for a repair they could be taken off and replaced at all, i.e. if anybody had swaging tools fitting these old and quite individual shapes. I did such repairs by fastening loose rings with low viscosity superglue and filling defects with an epoxy/grenadilla dust filler.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2017-03-22 20:18
While it seems to have been a recent trend, that shows it's been done for 100+ years.
I've seen an ebonite simple system Boosey&Co clarinet with Barret side key from the early 20th Century that also had the ringless bell with the same kind of decorative turning (inset beading) as you'd expect to see on any B&H clarinet bell.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Dibbs
Date: 2017-03-22 21:34
Chris P wrote:
> I've seen an ebonite simple system Boosey&Co clarinet with
> Barret side key from the early 20th Century that also had the
> ringless bell with the same kind of decorative turning (inset
> beading) as you'd expect to see on any B&H clarinet bell.
>
There's a wood one on Ebay atm. Silly price though.
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