 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: tkillian
Date: 2017-03-15 20:23
Didn't find in search mode.
I had a local teacher(woodwind player but not clarinet player) make the following statement when I told her I was going let my prize student (highschool just received 98/100 on Rossler Concerto and will be moving up to level 6/all-state literature )use my R13.
Here is what she said "a high school student should NEVER use a horn like that, there is way too much resistance for a young kid. It's "too much" horn"
Thoughts on this? I disagree only because my two clarinet teachers said they used R13 throughout highschool.
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2017-03-15 20:30
Baloney!
FWIW, I played an R-13 through high school. I've had any number of high-school-aged students through the years play R-13s without any difficulty. I'd be interested to know where she got that idea.
The only reason I might not recommend an instrument like that for a beginning 4th grader is the possibility of careless and eventually destructive treatment of it by a child too young to understand how to take care of it.
What instrument does this teacher think is good for "a young kid" of high school age?
Karl
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Author: ClarinetRobt
Date: 2017-03-15 20:40
100% could NOT disagree more with the local teacher. I played on R13 in Junior High and made State all through HS with it. A crappy horn is a crappy horn regardless the age of the player. There, of course, are tons of 'free blowing' Buffets out there.
I think it's awesome you're letting your student have every advantage possible at all-state. I bet you'll be helpful when your student goes picks out their own pro-level horn.
~Robt L Schwebel
Mthpc: Behn Vintage
Lig: Ishimori, Behn Delrin
Reed: Legere French Cut 3.75/4, Behn Brio 4
Horns: Uebel Superior (Bb,A), Ridenour Lyrique, Buffet R13 (Eb)
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Author: seabreeze
Date: 2017-03-15 20:42
I would just tell your teacher to open up her eyes. All over Texas and Michigan since the late 1950's, top high school players have been using Buffet R-13s with great success, winning solo contests, playing in top school bands and orchestras. The R-13 is not a Tosca or a heavy Selmer Recital. It is really very easy to balance in your hands, blow, and control. Even Tom Ridenour, no great fan of Buffet, admits that the R-13 is a "responsive" instrument. The problem is getting a really good R13. If you are buying a new instrument, it might be easier to find a good one if you tried the less-expensive Yamaha CSVR, a wonderful choice for a top high school player, also easy to control and more consistently likely to have a balanced scale and accurate tuning right out of the box.
If you can pick out a good R13, virtually any hard working, accomplished high school clarinetist should be able to play it easily. Thousands of others already have.
Post Edited (2017-03-16 02:40)
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Author: tkillian
Date: 2017-03-15 20:44
I'm doing it because this student little outside school, and clarinet. .no sports or extra stuff. Not saying they will make all state...just saying this is about doing my best for her/my students. Yeah, I would never recommend 4-7th grader use one....
Thanks for your encouragement. ..
And I also don't get her "too much resistance " comment. My student has excellent air support and knows how to use it
Post Edited (2017-03-15 20:46)
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2017-03-15 21:06
I've played an R13 since I was ten years old... played it for over a decade before changing to a different clarinet (just because I happened to find one I liked better)... Zero issues.
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Author: Joseph Brenner, Jr.
Date: 2017-03-15 22:01
My Bellison and Bonade educated teacher encouraged me near end of 8th grade to buy a Buffet; Moennig supported that and sold me a new Buffet he'd worked over. I entered high school sharing the first desk with the principal, made the central Jersey band and held the first chair post for the rest of high school. The Moennigized Buffet was not too much for me. That teacher mentioned above needs counseling.
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Author: dorjepismo ★2017
Date: 2017-03-16 00:54
A clarinet is, in most respects, unlike a Ford Mustang. Too little horn is much more likely to get one in trouble than too much horn.
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Author: Tony F
Date: 2017-03-16 01:47
I've never heard so much rubbish. I'd seriously doubt the credibility of a teacher who would make such a statement, especially as they are not themselves a clarinettist.
Tony F.
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Author: ClarinetRobt
Date: 2017-03-16 02:20
Best idea on the internet today comes from dorjepismo! Turbos for all of your clarinets!
~Robt L Schwebel
Mthpc: Behn Vintage
Lig: Ishimori, Behn Delrin
Reed: Legere French Cut 3.75/4, Behn Brio 4
Horns: Uebel Superior (Bb,A), Ridenour Lyrique, Buffet R13 (Eb)
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Author: gwie
Date: 2017-03-16 08:54
Nonsense.
If the family could afford it, every single private student of mine moved on as soon as possible from their student plastic clarinet to a Buffet R13, Yamaha 650, or similar (keeping the plastic one for backup, marching band, etc.).
One of my little whiz-kids got her set of used R-13's when she was in fifth grade...just a wonderful talent, already doing well with Baermann 3 and Rose 32...and you should have seen my high school kids in youth orchestra practically fall out of their seats in astonishment when she played next to them! :P
Post Edited (2017-03-16 08:54)
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Author: Ed
Date: 2017-03-16 16:20
There is no logic or reality in that statement.
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Author: BrianLundberg
Date: 2017-03-16 18:46
ClarinetRobt wrote:
>100% could NOT disagree more with the local teacher.
Ed wrote:
> There is no logic or reality in that statement.
Ditto!
My Bonade and Gigliotti educated teacher also had his students turn on to Buffet R13's as early as he could... Even loaning his Buffet R13 clarinets to those that could not afford them, and even gifting one on several occaisions.
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Author: RKing
Date: 2017-03-16 19:31
I wasn't good enough for a Buffet in high school, but I sure wish I had one.
"Too much resistance"? "Too much horn?" Nonsense! My first Buffet was actually easier to play than my student horn. The Buffet was so much smoother to use, especially with all the levers that we use with our little fingers. I think a younger person might find it much easier to progress with something like my Buffet.
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2017-03-17 07:34
You didn't know that?
I bet you didn't even know that you're not allowed to play a Rossi clarinet until you're at least 30. I don't even think he'll sell one to anyone younger than that- he's aware of the liability issues and risk of injury of trying something more customaized than an R13 without the proper development and maturity to handle it.
Of course it'd be silly to purchase one at that age before trying it, but you have to make sure you fill out the waiver form or he won't even let you touch it. Too much risk for him.
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
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Author: pewd
Date: 2017-03-17 07:55
I agree, rubbish. Consistent with the student's family's budget of course.
Some years ago, I had a unusually talented 12 year old at my home studio for a lesson. On a porch, screens open. Mom was taking a nap on the patio about 10 feet away, half asleep.
The student played a passage, I removed her mouthpiece, put it on my R13, and had her repeat the passage on the R13. Mom woke up, and asked 'what just changed?'. They ordered an R13 the next day. A few weeks later, the student refused to touch her old horn (an E11, in perfect repair I might add).
- Paul Dods
Dallas, Texas
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Author: tkillian
Date: 2017-03-19 02:46
This is so encouraging. My student is in 8th grade so not young, imo.
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Author: Bob Bernardo
Date: 2017-03-19 23:04
Well truth be told, the R13's are more resistant. We cannot disagree with this fact. In recent years the horns are even more resistant.
My first Buffet R13 was at the age of 13. They were better then, the late 1960's. Even then the Selmer's and the LaBlanc's were much more free blowing. It's kind of still that way.
It is becoming harder to fill an orchestra hall with a nice sound. The sound kind of dies depending on the halls. You have to take my word on this. The newer Buffets along with some of the mouthpieces such as the Zinner's and the M series Vandoren's really limit how the sound is carried.
If we look at some of the major symphony players a lot of them are not using Buffet's and Backuns, because the horns don't carry the sound as well as they could and should. So there are more players using older Buffet's and non Vandoren mouthpieces, as well as a lack of the top Backun horns.
People may say, well Ricardo with the Philadelphia Orchestra is using Backun horns. True! But I saw him using a glass mouthpiece to produce more sound. Maybe he is frustrated? I don't know. I haven't talked with him, but in general glass mouthpieces have a brighter and offer a bigger sound.
For a lower price and for a bigger sound the Yamaha clarinets are becoming very popular. A lot of pro's are heading in this direction. It's been talked about a lot on this board. The recently retired principal player with the National Symphony was using the Yamaha's. The Kennedy Center is a very hard hall to play in and you need that big sound. This man played there for 45 years or more. We have John Bruce Yeh with the Chicago, entering his 40th year, is using Yamaha's. Chicago is a huge hall to fill.
There are many other players using Yamaha's. I sold all of my Buffet's and switched. The good news is the Yamaha's play great right out of the case. The pads don't leak.
With Buffet's you may have to try out 20 before finding a good horn. Plus you then have to spend a lot of money fixing the leaking pads and adjusting the tuning. Add another $400 to $800. You can probably buy 2 Yamaha clarinets for the price of 1 Buffet.
Designer of - Vintage 1940 Cicero Mouthpieces and the La Vecchia mouthpieces
Yamaha Artist 2015
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Author: tkillian
Date: 2017-03-19 23:17
So Bob, you are going against the general consensus here. I hear understand but can you elaborate why and maybe explain why so many people above are saying they are not resistant etc...
Is it all opinion?
My friend, a professor, loves both the new r13 and yamaha. He said you have to pick through the R13 and the best ones are amazing whereas with the Yamaha they are pretty consistently good.
The one I bought is around 1968?(serial number 58747) new pads, adjusted etc.. I'm getting it Wednesday.
Post Edited (2017-03-19 23:23)
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Author: echi85
Date: 2017-03-20 00:04
Bob,
Could you tell us who is making the switch to Yamahas? I don't know of anyone other than Loren Kitt and John Bruce Yeh using them. In fact, nearly everyone still plays Buffets as referenced here:
http://www.buffet-crampon.com/en/artist/?instrufilter=14
Several well known players are playing Selmers now but I can only think of 3. I've yet to try the newer Selmers, but Stephen Williamson claims that they are harder to play at around 4 minutes:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vyA-rLrGIy0
I had the pleasure of listening to the Boston Symphony in person for an extended period of time and the section had no trouble projecting on their Buffets. Currently, two members are using Vandoren mouthpieces, one of whom won his audition on a Vandoren. Off the top of my head, I can think of at least 3 other principals in major orchestras who currently play on Vandoren mouthpieces.
Also, what evidence do you have of modern Buffets being more resistant than other brands? Anecdotally, I've tried several new ones for students and found them to be very similar to my set from the 2000s. I own a few from the 90s that are a little too free blowing. I do wish they could leave the factory in better condition but I've not experienced what you are claiming.
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Author: Bob Bernardo
Date: 2017-03-20 08:16
I'd rather not list the names of the people for privacy reasons. There are a lot... If they want to post here they will.
Play on other instruments, the Selmer Signature for one example. Try some of the older Selmers. The 9 series, the 10 series horns are very much more open. The Center Tone. Even the Ridenour horns are very free blowing.
I'm not against what the above people are saying, I'm just stating fact that we all honestly have to agree on. Buffet's are more resistant. This doesn't mean I don't like the horns. I played them until this past year! Before my days at Interlochen Arts Academy in 1972 I was playing on Buffets. (48 years) I think Buffet is going in the wrong direction, making horns that tune too low, horns that leak when new, notes that are often needing professional repairs, such as undercutting holes, and the need to try out 15 to 20 horns to find that one horn that plays great; after spending about $4000. I'm done with Buffet after 48 years. I strongly feel there are better horns on the market and LESS RESISTANT. If some musicians think that the more money you spend for a horn the better you will sound and play, well I disagree.
Ever play where the Chicago Symphony plays? I have. A Buffet can be very hard to fill this hall. Just like the Kennedy Center. Maybe this is why Steve Williamson is playing on Selmer's? A much bigger sound? I don't know, write to him and ask.
Be very careful here with what I wrote. I did NOT say the advice from the teacher was right or wrong regarding the persons post. I strictly stated facts and we all know and agree other horns are less resistant. some much less resistant. So I'm agreeing with all of you!!!
Let the kid experience several horns and see what he sounds best on. Perhaps it is the Buffet, but I hope not.
I want to hear big bold sounds that carry in weird halls as well as outdoor concerts.
Designer of - Vintage 1940 Cicero Mouthpieces and the La Vecchia mouthpieces
Yamaha Artist 2015
Post Edited (2017-03-20 09:03)
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Author: Barry Vincent
Date: 2017-03-20 11:30
Teacher said "A high school student should NEVER use a horn like that, there is way too much resistance for a young kid. It's "too much" horn"
I'd be educating the teacher on the fact that a Clarinet is a 'single reed pipe' of the Woodwind section of the band/orchestra.
The Horns are over in the Brass section.
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Author: Mark Charette ★2017
Date: 2017-03-20 14:52
Bob Bernardo wrote:
>
> For a lower price and for a bigger sound the Yamaha clarinets
> are becoming very popular.
Hey Bob, I hear that you're selling or repping Yamahas right now. Is that true?
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2017-03-20 16:35
Bob Bernardo wrote:
> Well truth be told, the R13's are more resistant. We cannot
> disagree with this fact. In recent years the horns are even
> more resistant.
>
> Play on other instruments, the Selmer Signature for one
> example. Try some of the older Selmers. The 9 series, the 10
> series horns are very much more open. The Center Tone. Even the
> Ridenour horns are very free blowing.
This seems to lead to a whole different discussion. Certainly, different instrument designs will produce different levels of resistance. But Tom (the OP) only wants to *lend* his R13 to the student. The comparisons Bob makes are relevant if the student is going to start shopping for a purchase of his/her own clarinet.
It was the statement that "a high school student should NEVER use a horn like that, there is way too much resistance for a young kid. It's 'too much' horn" that generated all the comment.
We can easily disagree on how much resistance is ideal for tone production, articulation and projection. That's why all of those different designs have come to exist. But the teacher Tom quotes is still wrong and the statement is nonsensical on its face.
Karl
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Author: Bob Bernardo
Date: 2017-03-20 20:53
For the record I am NOT selling Yamaha's. I can't even get Yamaha to send me a few A clarinet barrels to try out. Longer barrels. I've been asking them for some barrels since August, 2016.
I'm only selling Steuer reeds at cost, no profits are made. In fact I took a hit this year on taxes. I do this to get people away from Rico and Rico using Pesticides on ALL of their reed. I don't want fellow musicians getting requiring surgeries or other complications related to pesticides. Notice I haven't raised my prices is 4 years now? The Steuer company has every year, but my prices have remained the same.
As for mouthpieces I also lost money this year having a new expensive mold made. $75,000. These may be out by the ClarinetFest time, late July and the cost will be at a non profit cost. Probably around $125 or so. I'm not sure yet, as the mold is not completed. Don't be fooled by the cost. I wouldn't spend $75,000 on a mold if I didn't think these mouthpieces would be something really, really, great. Maybe the mold won't work and I will have wasted $75,000? It's a gamble. Just as other companies take gambles and maybe make better horns now compared to Buffet.
My goals are to Make Clarinet Playing Fun, Not Expensive.
I'm a good guy, but if some of you wish to ADD things to what I write feel free to. I have to buy the Steuer reeds just like everyone else, I have to buy my mouthpieces, and I had to pay for the Yamaha's, but I did get a slight discount. Yamaha does NOT give out free horns to any of the top pros. We all still pay.
Go out and buy a set of the top $10,000 Buffet horns, it surely won't make this high school kid play with a bigger, bolder, sound. In fact his sound close up will be "Pretty," but in a hall that pretty sound probably won't carry. He might be better off playing on the new Bliss clarinets, to feel that freedom. It's no secret that I feel the same way about the $19,000 Buckun's. I hate the M series Vandoren mouthpieces because they tune flat, and the Zinner mouthpieces don't project enough. When you put these on any R13's you sound great close up, but in a hall your sound is DEAD!
I totally agree that this person was out of place saying that the Buffet's were too resistant, but lets be fair, she is right. We don't know the whole story here. Maybe the kid likes to play a bit of jazz. It can be done on Buffet's, but be honest, it is much harder. Julian Bliss plays a lot of jazz. These Blizz horns are open and he sounds very good on them. I recently played the Copland Concerto on the Yamaha and it was much easier to hit the highest notes without fear, bend the notes, and fill that dead hall, compared to any of the Buffet's I've ever owned. (In 48 years.) Even the orchestra members liked the Yamaha over the 1966 Buffet during the rehearsals. We know the newer Buffets are worse.
I repeat, I don't think Buffet clarinets are the best horns on the market anymore. Go out and try other horns. You just might change your mind and enjoying playing music even more... This happened to me and I surely hope it happens to all of you!
Bob
Designer of - Vintage 1940 Cicero Mouthpieces and the La Vecchia mouthpieces
Yamaha Artist 2015
Post Edited (2017-03-20 21:49)
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Author: echi85
Date: 2017-03-20 23:28
Bob,
I think you are well known and respected in the clarinet community and certainly on this board. I am very grateful for the reed work you did at Rico, I still think the Rico Reserve reeds were the best commercial reed available, at least for me. I found your review of the new Yamahas to be very interesting and something I would like to pursue.
However, the claims you are making require evidence for them be taken seriously. If you have any evidence that a properly setup Buffet is more resistant than any other brand, I would love to hear and understand it. Right now, it's just conjecture.
If you take clarinet sections of the Big 5 orchestras, roughly 75% of the members are playing Buffet. If you expand to include other high paying orchestras (L.A., Detroit, San Francisco, Cincinnati, St. Louis, Dallas, Houston, Pittsburgh, Atlanta, Minnesota), that number becomes closer to 90%. I don't think it's probable that all of these players are choosing to play highly resistant clarinets. I also think it's unlikely that all of these players are playing instruments from pre 1970. If you have any evidence contradicting this, I would love to be enlightened.
Furthermore, I can only think of one player currently playing Yamaha, 3 playing Selmers, and 4 playing Backuns. I'm sure there are more but they are vastly the minority. I don't necessarily think that the majority are always right but when the gap is this big, there must be something about Buffets that players like. Perhaps if you could tell us which orchestras are using Yamahas, without naming individual players.
I will state this again, current members of the Boston Symphony and New York Philharmonic are playing Vandoren mouthpieces. I agree with many of your sentiments but that doesn't mean that they reflect reality. Many of my colleagues, myself included, have won auditions using a Vandoren mouthpiece (including the M series).
There is certainly enough room for players to play whatever they feel comfortable on, but it would be wise if we all aware of our biases and come to a discussion with minimal baggage. Generalizations of individual brands need evidence to be taken seriously.
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Author: J. J.
Date: 2017-03-21 01:03
Bob, this is just getting embarrassing. You may not like Buffets, and that's fine. If you'd come on here and made a subjective claim, I'd have rolled my eyes and moved on. But here you are, stating unequivocally, that Buffets are not just more resistant but are losing popularity to... Yamaha and Selmer?
First of all, on a subjective basis, your claim about R13s being more resistant than Selmers and Yamahas is laughable to me. I've played them all. I like the new Yamaha instruments a lot, but I don't agree on this characterization. That's all I'll say. See how easy that was?
"If we look at some of the major symphony players a lot of them are not using Buffet's and Backuns, because the horns don't carry the sound as well as they could and should. So there are more players using older Buffet's and non Vandoren mouthpieces, as well as a lack of the top Backun horns."
Just categorically untrue. If there's been any movement in brand choice, it's a slight move in the direction of Backun, but not to Yamaha and Selmer. Your examples included two older players, one of which just retired. And they've both played Yamaha for years!
"Ever play where the Chicago Symphony plays? I have. A Buffet can be very hard to fill this hall. Just like the Kennedy Center. Maybe this is why Steve Williamson is playing on Selmer's? A much bigger sound? I don't know, write to him and ask."
Yeah, I don't need to write him. He played Selmer prior to going to Chicago, so that has nothing to do with it. Maybe he just likes the instruments, and that's his right. But he is still in the minority.
(Side note: Major credit where it's due to echi85 for finding that video of Steve Williamson seemingly directly contradicting what you say about his Selmer vs. other instruments)
"So there are more players using older Buffet's and non Vandoren mouthpieces, as well as a lack of the top Backun horns."
I'm not going to address the Backun issue, but you're just so wrong about the Vandoren mouthpieces. The vast majority of full-time symphony auditions have been won on a Vandoren in the last few years. Yes, they stick with them. And while I'm not going to take the time to give you an extensive list, I don't feel the need because it was you who threw out the claim about people moving *away* from them with no evidence.
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Author: kchan ★2017
Date: 2017-03-21 02:44
tkillian wrote:
> Boys and girls, I didn't mean to start a war. 
>
>
I know it was an innocent question and to me people were giving their opinion trying to be helpful.
'Here is what she said "a high school student should NEVER use a horn like that, there is way too much resistance for a young kid. It's "too much" horn'
... who knows what led her to believe this ... but a poorly adjusted instrument or tone holes poorly covered would create a situation with a serious amount of air leaks giving the impression of too much resistance for the person playing (or not if they are a beginner).
I remember in college thinking that my classmate's Selmer was more resistant than my old Buffet ... but maybe my tubby hands were just missing covering those tone holes well.
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Author: SarahC
Date: 2017-03-21 03:45
I read the op and then swore...
Seriously... Who cares what clarinet the student plays if they enjoy playing it.
If it is too resistant for the child, the child will complain. At least, my students are very quick to inform me if something is uncomfortable.
I feel that clarinets change so much depending on mouthpiece. My ridenour mouthpiece makes every clarinet I have sound amazing.
If the student was buying, I would say save money and check out some of the cheaper brands. Yamaha and ridenour come to mind as my two favourite.
I played a r13 or 2 at the shop. And they were lovely. But at 4500$ compared to understand 4000$for the Yamaha or 1000$ for the Amati.. While I like the buffet the bar, I didn't feel it sounded better enough to just ft the price.
But that doesn't mean a student who likes, and can afford an r13 shouldn't use one.
I think the op person was an idiot who liked the sound of his own voice.. Basically. Some people just like to make judgemental comments that make them sound superior. And swear word responses seem appropriate... Well.. Maybe swearing behind their back!
The number of times I hear statements of this nature..
"young kids can't learn piano.. "... Well I have many two year olds finish grade 8 by ten years of age
Young kids can't learn flute.. Ba humbug . Proved that wrong
Yamaha is better than Kawai... Idiots... Personal preference doesn't make one better than another...
Professionals need open hole flutes... Rubbish.... Only multuphonic players get a real benefit from open holes.
Resin clarinets don't sound good.. Rubbish... Ridenour makes amazing clarinets, which many high level musicians love.
Buffets are the best... Well... They might be some people's preference, doesn't make it the best.
Students should start on student instruments... Insert swear words here...
Suzuki students can't read... Ba humbug. I challenge anyone to find one of my students who is now over five, and playing for more than a year who aren't competent readers....
Or the lying shop keepers "you are such an amazing beginner.. You need this top of the line professional instrument if u r going to get further... " ba humbug... Top of the line is nice... But a quality student instrument doesn't hinder either...
OK... Some of my gripes... He he he...
Give her a go.. If she enjoys playing your r 13, and u r happy for her to borrow it... Run with it, no matter what idiots try and tell u about students capabilities.
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Author: SarahC
Date: 2017-03-21 03:46
PS.. If it is still enjoyable to play, then it isn't too resistant.
I am not good at measuring resistance.. But I know I have played resistant set ups that almost had me quitting clarinet. But it was a different mouthpiece that made all the difference.
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Author: KenJarczyk
Date: 2017-03-21 07:11
A whole lot of posting that seems to have gotten WAY off track.
I was 13 when I recieved my brand new 1969 Buffet R13. (A step up from my Bundy I had since I started at 5 years old.) I absolutely loved it immediately then, and it is still the love of my clarinet life. I would say the original poster's teacher somehow received very bad information. (I could be cruel and suggest that the teacher must have had discussions with Mr. Bernardo!) Have no fear - R13s are still the majority's choice. I've played +/or owned many Selmers, Leblancs, Yamahas, Ridenours, Noblets, Wurlitzers, Couenons, Conns, Kohlerts, and Buffets. Resistance depends on clarinet/mouthpiece/reed/pad-type combinations.
Ken Jarczyk
Woodwinds Specialist
Eb, C, Bb, A & Bass Clarinets
Soprano, Alto, Tenor & Baritone Saxophones
Flute, Alto Flute, Piccolo
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Author: tkillian
Date: 2017-03-21 14:00
I think (am only guessing here), it could be that she is a saxophonist and teaches saxophone privately. But gets the occasional clarinet student. I teach public school and the sax students I have of hers are amazing and consistently well trained. The clarinet students come to me with incorrect embouchures. I'm NOT saying I know any better. Just making observation. She has one clarinet student know who is amazing, but that student practices 1hour a day. Started in 3rd grade, comes from a family of musicians...i.e. they will be great regardless of this teacher and make her look good. The teacher is. Shall we say, "old school pompous and hmm, confident in their wisdom" another quote "all of my students play great "...not true but she believes it.
I'm still learning just trying to be humble and open minded.
Post Edited (2017-03-21 14:02)
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Author: TomS
Date: 2017-03-21 19:26
Occasionally visit local music store, a nice store with good inventory, GREAT people, but little in the way of "pro" clarinets ... mostly low-end Buffets and Yamaha (good instruments, just not quite "pro", whatever that means ...) At my old age and with fresh money burning a hole in my pocket, I pondered purchasing an R13 greenline in stock. I played it and all was well, but flat in throat slightly with stock barrel and M13-lyre and #3 Rue Lepic (a reverse taper barrel might help).
The point is, that here in Little Rock, that clarinet had sat on the shelve thru 3 price increases (!), and that is what made it attractive to me, a $500+ savings! However someone had over-tightened the thumb rest and stripped the screws, so I didn't purchase. I don't know if it didn't sell because of the stripped screws, but I suspect in a market like Little Rock, student's just won't or can't spring for a "pro" horn. Back in the 1950-60s, most good HS students had Leblanc LLs, Selmer 9, 9* and 10 and Buffets. No longer, at least around here. Can't get rid of them ... I think the store might buy enough R13s to stay active as a Buffet dealer ... This store also has a Vintage model Buffet that has lingered for eons, I think ...
Since I knew many players, some from the 8th grade on, that played professional clarinets, and played them well without some sort of handicap, I think the notion that professional instruments are in some way are "too much of an instrument" for young players, is false ... best to start with the best, if you can afford it. Clarinets that have built-in compensation for poor embouchure and breath support just delay having to deal with the inevitable down the road, if they want to progress.
The R13 has been attacked a lot about various issues, but I was surprised, even semi-gobsmacked (after exclusively playing Yamaha and Ridenour for a while) how well the greenline played. So ... I've ordered one from out of state, and at considerable more expense ... it's a bucket list thing for me, kinda, and I want an instrument I can use outdoors ... I miss my R13s, despite their well known shortcomings ... Still a big fan of Ridenour and Yamaha .... Honestly, they should just pass out Tom Ridenour's clarinets to beginner programs, as they play easily and can be well used, even if they become "pro" players 10 years later.
Tom
Post Edited (2017-03-21 23:46)
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Author: Bob Bernardo
Date: 2017-03-24 01:27
Sorry folks, this is going too far. Lets forget about what the orchestra members are playing. That's another subject which I will talk about in a later post in the future.
Try not to dig too deep here. I'm actually in agreement with everyone, but just stating there are less resistant horns on the market. Lets end this here. Lets forget about all of my other conversations. Lets just say this lady probably shouldn't have said the Buffet's aren't for high school students, because it is too resistant. This comment is surely wrong. I'm just saying there are less resistant horns, so lets stop the conversation right at this mark. A high school student can handle a Buffet clarinet. I think most of us did when we we learning to play. At some point we all jumped to the R13's. I jumped the gun here. Peace to all!
Designer of - Vintage 1940 Cicero Mouthpieces and the La Vecchia mouthpieces
Yamaha Artist 2015
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