 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Anon
Date: 2017-03-05 22:44
Hey there
I've been experimenting with the Legere European cut reeds and while I'm not quite "there" yet with switching over completely, I must say I'm very intrigued. I've been playing 3.5 and 3.5+ D'Addarios and honestly, whether it's the weather (been a really weird winter humidity and temp wise in the south) I just can't get anything to be consistent and it's stressful since I play and teach professionally.
Another professional player and friend of mine made the switch and is totally happy. I've had two European cuts of the same strength, one was appropriate in feel and the other was way too light. Surprising to me how different they feel but I really like the one that I can blow against and get some nice resistance. I don't really care for the standard reed.
Played in a chamber music rehearsal yesterday, felt good and sounded good. No one said anything like "hey you sound different" so that was good. But at a church gig this morning, the flute player said "Are you playing a synthetic reed today? It just sounds so different than a cane reed." Freaked me right out because I honestly don't think it sounds different.
So the questions here are:
Do you play them all the time? If yes, do you find that you have to mess with the strengths?
Are the pro players listed on Legere's site really playing them as their reeds all the time?
If you play them, has there been any adjustment period between switching from cane to synthetic?
Has anyone offered their opinion on your sound?
I'm going to blind test with another musician tonight to see if he notices anything.
Thoughts?
Thanks,
Marianne
:-)
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2017-03-06 00:11
Can the Legere sound as good as the Cane reed?
Absolutely. Do the players on the Legere site really play them - yes.
Full time? Possibly, probably, not sure. Many of my friends are playing them full time, and have for several years.
They have gotten far better over the past couple of years with the new designs.
Whatever works for you. There are players who the time saved from not having to deal with reeds gives them more practice time.
http://www.SkypeClarinetLessons.com
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2017-03-06 01:03
Anon wrote:
>
> Do you play them all the time? If yes, do you find that you
> have to mess with the strengths?
Yes - except that I sometimes practice with cane just to keep a few ready and my hand in with reed adjustment. I've been doing all of my playing outside the practice room on Légère Euros.
>
> If you play them, has there been any adjustment period between
> switching from cane to synthetic?
>
Definitely. I think you need to shape your mouth a little differently, and keeping altissimo notes in tune takes some adjustment.
> Has anyone offered their opinion on your sound?
>
The only opinions I've had, really, are the lack of comment on any change. No one has told me I sound "so much better" using the synthetics, but no one has complained that something's wrong.
> I'm going to blind test with another musician tonight to see if
> he notices anything.
>
The thing is, even if there's a slight difference - and I do hear a slight one in my own ears - it isn't enough to be obvious to anyone who isn't paying specific attention to it and isn't bad, just different. The problems with cane that are solved by the Légère Euro material and design more than compensate for the small difference that I hear.
I do find that there are differences from reed to reed even within the same strength. But they are far more consistent than cane out of the box. If you get a real clunker, it can be exchanged directly through Légère, but I haven't had to do that yet. And some variation among reeds isn't necessarily bad - it allows some choice for different kinds of music and different playing venues.
I do think there seem to be Légère-friendly mouthpieces and Légère-unfriendly ones. I'm using a slightly more closed tip for the Euros than for cane reeds, mostly to improve control over intonation.
Karl
> Thoughts?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Marianne
> :-)
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Author: RKing
Date: 2017-03-06 01:25
I am still experimenting with the Legere European reed.
I have heard that they are both "stronger" and "weaker" than cane, so I split the difference and bought the same strength I normally use. It worked fine and I was surprised a little at how good it sounded.
The only strange thing I noticed was after about 30 minutes, the Legere felt "slick" on my lip. Funny how we don't notice the grain on a cane reed until someone takes it away.
No, I do not play it all the time.
Yes, I am going through the adjustment period now.
No one has asked me to endorse it. <LOL>
I have not played it in public, yet.
Good luck with your test. I am interested in the results.
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Author: Klose ★2017
Date: 2017-03-06 06:41
>Do you play them all the time? If yes, do you find that you have to mess with the strengths?
All the time and now feel strange to play cane reeds. Always rotate with one strength.
>Are the pro players listed on Legere's site really playing them as their reeds all the time?
Personally know a lot of professionals who play them exclusively, especially orchestra players.
>If you play them, has there been any adjustment period between switching from cane to synthetic?
Yes, but very short.
>Has anyone offered their opinion on your sound?
Only a few people heard the difference but not sure which one is better.
Post Edited (2017-03-06 08:29)
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Author: TomS
Date: 2017-03-08 03:00
I think the Legere can sound every bit as good as cane, different, but not inferior at all. Articulation wise, as good as cane too. The only downside is that they play flatter, especially in the high register and I can't get them to work well above altissimo G ... this is possibly because I use fairly soft reeds (56s #3 or #3.5 on an M13 lyre) for an easier blow. I can play the full range of the clarinet with soft cane reeds, but not soft synthetics.
Not tried the European cut, yet ...
Tom
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Author: ClarinetRobt
Date: 2017-03-08 03:56
>Do you play them all the time?
-Yes, but thinking as soon as kill my last box of Luethner, I'll the make full time switch.
>If you play them, has there been any adjustment period between switching from cane to synthetic?
-Definitely a short time.
>Has anyone offered their opinion on your sound?
-Yes, people have noted a darker tone. (I suspect the synthetic kills a few of the overtones). In the 'holy grail' of the endless (and needlessly tiring search) for a 'darker' clarinet sound, perhaps that's not a bad thing. I use a silver ligature to add some vibrancy back to the sound. Note: I have no scientific evidence to back this claim.
~Robt L Schwebel
Mthpc: Behn Vintage
Lig: Ishimori, Behn Delrin
Reed: Legere French Cut 3.75/4, Behn Brio 4
Horns: Uebel Superior (Bb,A), Ridenour Lyrique, Buffet R13 (Eb)
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2017-03-08 07:56
Quote:
Played in a chamber music rehearsal yesterday, felt good and sounded good. No one said anything like "hey you sound different" so that was good. But at a church gig this morning, the flute player said "Are you playing a synthetic reed today? It just sounds so different than a cane reed." Freaked me right out because I honestly don't think it sounds different.
So the questions here are:
Do you play them all the time? If yes, do you find that you have to mess with the strengths? I use them all the time in MY job (Army Musician). Clarinet, Tenor Sax, and I need to order some for my Alto Sax. I also have one for oboe as I MIGHT start seriously working on that in August.
Quote:
Are the pro players listed on Legere's site really playing them as their reeds all the time? Definitely using them for rehearsals, lessons, and it'll be person to person as to whether they use them in performances. But there are DEFINITELY some that use them 100% of the time (rehearsals and performances).
Quote:
If you play them, has there been any adjustment period between switching from cane to synthetic? Yes. It's a different feel. And do your best to shift the reed EVER so slightly up, down, left or right as small shifts on the mouthpiece make BIG differences in the sound and response.
Quote:
Has anyone offered their opinion on your sound? Most have liked my sound. Not said, "Wow you sound different" or anything like that, but rather have simple said that I have a nice sound.
Quote:
I'm going to blind test with another musician tonight to see if he notices anything. Blind tests are tough. Do a lot of tests (not four, but 10+ tests) randomly. The more tests, the less likely that them picking the cane or synthetic would be likely due to guessing right. If they pick it right 9 times out of 10, it's likely there IS a pretty audible difference.
Quote:
Thoughts? Record yourself. YOU listen to how you sound, and decide if YOU'RE ok with that.
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
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Author: D Dow
Date: 2017-03-08 21:58
I play on the Euro as well..I must admit it has saved me alot of money. For a considerable period I thought it was a total answer but certain aspects have changed me on where and what I think of them.
As for pitch..very good but at times a strong tendency to play low in the in altissimo has turned me off the Euro..changing to a harder reed would not make a difference. This was my biggest dissapointment..but again if the group plays right on at 440 not an issue..in solo performance this was more noted by me than colleagues.
From day to day great for practice..but the tone is so even as to be hum hum..so for cane I like the variability of timbre.
the synthetic reed is here to stay and i love playing on them..but not in all settings by and large...
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Author: Fuzzy
Date: 2017-03-08 22:16
I remember trying a Fibracell reed back in the mid 80s (tenor saxophone or bass clarinet - can't remember which one). Meh. I played it for a while (it was something like $8US). It made notes, but it was just too different for me to adapt to...and I just didn't like it as much as regular cane. That was my last experience with synthetic reeds. I know they've changed since then...a lot.
One of the musicians I know owns the synthetic reed Artie Shaw recorded Stardust with. So I know synthetic reeds have been around a while (I've received a couple really old and mistreated synthetic reeds with clarinets I've collected over the years - I am guessing the reeds were made in the 1940s - 1950s.)
I still can't bring myself to play synthetics...though you've all piqued my interest. What is an "average" lifespan of a Legere? (What about other synthetics on the market - are any of them real contenders at this time?) Do any of you play jazz with a Legere? If so - how does it compare to cane in jazz?
Thanks!
Fuzzy
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Author: Wes
Date: 2017-03-08 22:52
Yes, I also have one of those plastic reeds from the 1940s and it plays quite good. But I'm not unhappy with my V12 cane reeds as they always sound fine and are no problem. I noticed a sound difference with the early Legere reeds but have not tried the recent ones. Guy Legere is a good person and I appreciate his work.
One advantage of a synthetic reed that no one seems to notice is that it doesn't appear to need to be lightly scraped periodically to remove accumulated debris as with a well used cane reed.
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Author: dorjepismo ★2017
Date: 2017-03-08 23:26
Just to make things more convoluted, Legere now has a German cut reed, at least some of which have the "Nick" name on them. Nick Kückmeier is also putting out Nick/Legere reeds, AKA the Nick reed program, where a box including two each of three different strengths, S, M, and H, go for some 36 Euros plus postage at http://klarinettedirekt.de/webshop/. At least from the U.S., the only payment method seems to be SWIFT transfer. Regular German reeds are too narrow for some French mouthpieces, but European cut Legeres are noticeably wider than the French cut reeds I use, so the German cut reeds might possibly work even better for relatively narrow mouthpieces.
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Author: mddds
Date: 2017-03-08 23:53
the traditional German Legere reeds i ordered from Germany had the Nick label on them, but i didn't notice any difference in reed quality or appearance than the ones purchased in the US.
after playing exclusively on Legeres (on German System), i do notice variability among reed of similar strengths. more so than i thought based on what i read.
the Euro (on Boehm MP & Clarinet) was no exception. i bought 2 several months ago and they played very well. i bought 5 more of the same strength and opened 3. one was unplayable, and two were very harsh.
i noticed that the harsh/unplayable Legeres had much more raised surface texture/stippling (even on the flat side) than the good one - which was smooth, especially on the flat side.
i'm not sure if that explains the difference.
i sent an email to Legere and here was the response:
"Rest assured the pattern and finish you are seeing on the back of the reed does not directly affect the reed's responsiveness, its purpose is to prevent the reed from suctioning to the mouthpiece and to better resemble the texture of cane. The pattern on the back of the reed can be more evident on some reeds more than others depending on specific circumstances such as reed type, material density, etc. The presence of this pattern began in 2010 and has proven to be very beneficial."
i could be wrong, but i thought that the flat side of the reed was ideally to be flat (or at least conform to the MP table) to get the best response.
maybe the mechanics and concepts are different with plastic.
any positive feedback/comments appreciated
-CK
Post Edited (2017-03-09 00:08)
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2017-03-09 00:57
mddds wrote:
> i could be wrong, but i thought that the flat side of the reed
> was ideally to be flat (or at least conform to the MP table) to
> get the best response.
>
> maybe the mechanics and concepts are different with plastic.
>
I suspect this is another case of "what works, works." I'm sure the engineers at Legere spent time testing different surfaces and found that what they're doing gave the best result.
Until they discover an even better refinement.
AFAIK, the reasons why the back of a cane reed should be flat are to avoid any channel for air leakage and to provide evenly distributed pressure on the reed against the mouthpiece table. A little texture under the reed won't interfere with either of these if the surface is flat - not convex or concave.
Some people "polish" the back of a cane reed, I think, to minimize the amount of water it absorbs. That's obviously not an issue with plastic.
Karl
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