 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: g81gr
Date: 2017-02-21 02:09
Good day. Yesterday, I participated in a live pop concert playing clarinet and i had a problem with the sound... It was a small stage and many instruments with individual microphones. My microphone picked sounds from all the near instruments (saxophone and electric bass) so all in all my sound was really bad, and barely audible... almost no one herd what i played that night... Which was really frustrating, so many hours of studing, wasted...
So, i want to buy a microphone for my clarinet... I don't want something expensive 200€ at most. My main concern is the sound quality, i want a real clarinet sound so that i can use it in a classical , ethnic and pop concert.
Thanks a lot!!!
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Author: fskelley
Date: 2017-02-21 19:15
I worked with barrel mics for a few years, and for live performance you can't beat them- you'll get every note you play, uniform from top to bottom, and not a whisper of other instruments or feedback. But the tone quality (and characteristic clarinet sound) is not the best.
There are dedicated clip on mics for sax and such for under $100. I've never tried one, but some here report good success with them.
The problem with clarinet miking is that the sound exits all over and around the instrument and varies note to note. I've found the best regular (cardioid) mic position for solo recording is hanging down from overhead, but that may not be the best place to isolate you in a close group. Worth a try. Good luck and let us know how it goes.
Stan in Orlando
EWI 4000S with modifications
Post Edited (2017-02-21 19:24)
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Author: g81gr
Date: 2017-02-21 22:54
First of all, i want to thank you, for your answers... I play with the cl4 vandoren mouthpiece and that really helped, but when you are one, and the sax are 2, and the electric bass is exactly behind you, and the monitor is not set properly because there was interferance with the mics, then, nothing really helps you... not even an external air compressor attached to your cheek... lol...
I asked around some friends, and the told me that the pressure mics, are not good for clarinets, they are designed for strings, guitar etc, so they have a good response in the low frequencies, and bad for the high (we want the exact opposite for some reason for the woodwings...)
The barrel mics, have the problem you mentioned above about the sound quality, even if they pic everything, they mess with the quality, almost like the dynamic mics (never tried the barell mic, thats what they told me) (the dynamic changes the sound a lot, in some cases, i couldn't recognize what i played...)
So the best solution supposedly is the clip on cardioed mics in the bell like this one which many clarinetists, proposed https://www.thomann.de/gb/akg_c_519_m.htm
Has anyone used it???
Thats all i learnt in the past two days, any other ideas???
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Author: Dan Shusta
Date: 2017-02-22 02:26
I almost sent you the ad for the AKG C 519 M Cardioid clip on mic, from the URL you listed above, however, I felt it would pick up all of the instruments around you.
"and the monitor is not set properly because there was interferance with the mics"... this is beginning to sound like a mixer sound setting problem.
Are the mics from all of the instruments connected to a mixer module with individual loudness controls for each instrument? If not, perhaps this may be the solution to the entire problem.
Just a thought...
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Author: Fuzzy
Date: 2017-02-22 03:54
For what it's worth: I've seen folks using two clip-ons. One at the end of the bell, and one near the lower end of upper joint.
Fuzzy
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Author: g81gr
Date: 2017-02-22 10:22
Good day!!!
The monitor problem was not just mixer sound settings problem... The scene was supposed to be for 5 people at most, and we were 10... So with my right shoulder i could touch the sax player, with my left the acordion player, and i could feel the air from the bass's player amplifier... It was an impossible situation for the sound guy... and not suitable for a clarinet... Also, every instrument had its own mic ( i had a dynamic mic, but it still picked up sound from the sax next to me...)
About the barrel mic, its true that it does not pick up other instruments around, but it messes with the sound of the clarinet, and that i want to avoid... In case i don't find anything else, thats what i am gonna buy... I suppose that if i played ethnic, or jazz clarinet the barrel pickup would be my first choise... but i play mostly classical and some other kinds where the classical sound is important...
After reading the akg 519 manual, i found out that the mic, has a low sensitivity in low frequencies, and equal sesitivity in the high frequencies. Also, the bell produces the HIGH frequencies and each individual note holes the LOW freqs... Which was really controversial from what i really thought... Finally they propose to use 2 mics for the best result like fuzzy said, in order to have an uniform sound output, or one (the 519) targeted in the lowest hole (the tap of the low e) where is the place with the most uniform frequencies...
Anyway, i have a friend who uses the 519 for the clarinet and he is really happy with it. I hope to use it these days and tell you the results.
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2017-02-22 13:36
There are mixed reviews about mics like the AKG 519 and similar clip-ons, my guess is because the volume varies too much and everyone can only judge it based on the specific situation. A lot can depend on the sound person and sometimes other equipment too.
For a regular mic, one or preferably two dynamics can be good, if it's not very loud. This worked ok for me even when there was a another clarinet and a saxophone right next to me, but it really depends on the exact situation.
I still have an old recording (from when I was completely clueless about this) and they used a single dynamic mic for the bass clarinet. Some phrases have some of the notes missing because it didn't pick them up...
I have both single and double clip on mics. The single mic is usually used connected just above the bell, pointing up. It can be great, but it really depends how loud it is. The double mic is better but also heavier (very noticeable).
My clip-ons are AMT which are good but I actually use a pickup 99% of the time on both clarinet and bass clarinet. The advantages just far outweigh the compromises. I use even in "mainstream" wind band, etc. that isn't that loud just because the sound is pretty good and it just solves all the issues that even clip-on mics have sometimes.
If you can try a clip-on that is best and you can see if it fits what you need.
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Author: g81gr
Date: 2017-02-22 13:57
Good day, what you said is really helpful!!! You are really right, each stage is different and it is really difficult to set up a clarinet among other instruments... The question remains though... Is there any solution for every case??? what about a barrel mic, or a combination of the two... I am searching for a plug and play case, because i play out in the open, in a small stage indoors, in a large stage indoors or in a live event...
The sound guys here do not know how to mic a clarinet... clarinet is a really rare instrument here, and those who play, play ethnic music and they use a barrel mic distorting intentionally the sound. So the sound guys are puzzled... Thats the reason why i want a mic solution for me, which i will test in a studio, knowing that it is calibrated correctly in my instrument, with the desired sound quality and warmth, so when i am at a performance, i plug the cable, and there is sound!!! Is that possible??? even if i have to buy 2 mics, i prefer it than what is going on right now in a live...
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2017-02-23 10:02
>> The question remains though... Is there any solution for every case??? <<
That's an easy question... no
Unless you mean a different solution for every case... and then yes
What I would look for is the solution that is the least compromised for the most situations.
If you can borrow that clip-on mic that's the best first step. Try it and see how it works. Try different positions too - closer to the bell, higher, etc.
The most common way to connect it is approximately like this http://static.keymusic.com/products/222698/XL/akg-cc519-clarinet-clamp-2.jpg
By the way recording your sound with any mic as a test is definitely worth it but I wouldn't give that too much significance. It captures the sound very "direct"and without much or any of the room or your "acoustic" sound. It is especially bad for a pickup, which wouldn't have anything but the direct sound, while in a concert it would actually be amplified in a room.
Unless I use effect pedals, I never use the pickup for a recording, but I use it 90% of the time in concerts, even for an "acoustic" sounding group. It's partly because I play mainly bass clarinet, which is even much worse than clarinet to amplify.
For the situation you described, as much as possible to know from this description, I would absolutely use the pickup. When I don't use it, I usually have a good condenser on a stand, for music that is relatively quiet or "classical "(in sound), though is amplified anyway for whatever reason. The pickup is good enough that I actually never use my double clip-on mic.
Post Edited (2017-02-23 19:33)
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Author: D Dow
Date: 2017-02-23 20:16
Most sound guys in a large setting have no inking of the clarinet..which produces a rather diffuse sound spectrum. This is best picked up by a omni directional mike which is set to a good volume level depending on the room depth!
Well..further I do alot of TV recording work and radio..I cannot get away with a set of cork pads in close miking as they tend to clonk and click...and buzz. So now I use Ashton synthetic super pads and voila..no problem..however beware clarinetists...breathing heavy..buzzing reeds and also clicking keys are picked up by a good pro engineer so it is not easy. Sometimes you can't exhale after a long phrse or breathe or it ruins a take!
David Dow
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Author: g81gr
Date: 2017-02-24 15:08
Attachment: DSC_2747.jpg (231k)
Good day to you all!!! I like the conversation that is going on!!! There are a lot of input, and a lot to test... If only i had the money to test everything...
So clarnibass what microphone do you propose??? What do you meen by pick up ??? Is it the barrel mic??
D Dow, the omnidirectional mic is the best from my experience, do doubt, but picks the nearby instruments to... I have used it in a live event, and it was nice in the rehersal, but awful during the event... The sound guy told me that it picked the voices of the people around!!!
An other guy told me that the best solution is one barrel mic Like this http://flashstar.skaipatras.gr/site/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/DSC_2747.jpg
href="http://flashstar.skaipatras.gr/site/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/DSC_2747.jpg"
and one dynamic in the middle
Post Edited (2017-02-24 15:12)
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The Clarinet Pages
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![[E3]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/e3.gif)
and middle B4 ![[B4]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/b4.gif)
will be very loud in comparison to anything from the throat- for example Bb4 ![[Bb4]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/bb4.gif)
will be inaudible. Barrel mic treats all notes more or less equally.
