 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Ben Shaffer
Date: 2017-01-30 05:38
I play in several church Bands.
These bands average about 15 players.
The Instruments being woodwinds and various brass.
I've got 2 clarinets, one with a 66mm barrel and the other with a 65mm barrel.
I've got 6 Mouthpieces 5 of which when looking at the Tuning meter are around -15 flat on low D and middle D.
I do have a crapo plastic Mouthpiece however that is spot on and that is the one I use when playing with the Bands, however it does not sound near as nice or play as well as the other 5 :(.
So at -15 or 20 if I use the better sounding Mouthpieces would they sound horrible flat when playing with others or would those aforementioned numbers be acceptable?
I guess I could buy a 64 mm Barrel
Any suggestions?
Here are the mouthpieces.....
An H Couf special *2 plastic MP being the Crapo one that is spot on
The better sounding ones in no particular order...
Van Doren M13
Van Doren M15
H Hite Artist
WWBW Vito 2( plastic)
and finally a...
"made in US" ( plastic generic)
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Author: kdk
Date: 2017-01-30 07:07
Yes, 15 cents flat will sound flat if everyone else is in tune. "Horribly flat" is a judgment you'd have to make based on how in tune everyone else is with each other.
What 2 clarinets are you using?
Are you choosing the two Ds for a reason? How do the other notes tune with your array of mouthpieces and barrels and two clarinets?
People get very doctrinaire about what notes to use as tuning pitches. You have to find where most of the notes on the instrument tune. Pick a note that represents how most of the notes tune and check your setup with that pitch.
If an instrument is generally really 15 cents flat, you may have to use a shorter barrel. But you might also be using too soft a reed, which can prevent you from giving the reed enough embouchure support to keep it in tune.
Karl
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Author: Bob Bernardo
Date: 2017-01-30 09:19
You have 2 main choices. A shorter barrel 64 mm or make or buy a shorter mouthpiece. As written many times the Vandoren mouthpieces M series tune to 440, or should on most horns. 440 in my opinion is too low so you can shorten it, but it's easier to get a mouthpiece of quality that tunes higher, unless you are in love with the mouthpiece then have it shortened and refaced, by about 1/64th" or so. Often a shorter barrel will though other notes out of tune, so you have to adjust these notes by a repairman. Shop wisely if you go with a smaller barrel and make sure you can get a refund/return if it, the barrel doesn't work. Some stores charge a 20 percent restocking fee. I'm guessing you are playing on a Buffet, because they are making their R13 horns to tune to 440 as well? Just a guess.
Designer of - Vintage 1940 Cicero Mouthpieces and the La Vecchia mouthpieces
Yamaha Artist 2015
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Author: dorjepismo ★2017
Date: 2017-01-30 19:28
I've had the same problem with a couple otherwise really great mouthpieces. The mouthpiece tenon is maybe 2 mm shorter than the corresponding socket in the barrel, and they're borderline flat using the shortest barrel available. I've tried to file one down, and ended up messing up the cork and filing into the tennon, which doesn't do great things to the sound, so maybe this isn't a self-serve kind of operation. Is there a safe way to do this without special equipment?
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Author: kdk
Date: 2017-01-30 19:52
I doubt if you can do it without a lathe. If you only shorten then tenon without moving the shoulder at the end of the tenon back the same amount, you'll only have created a wider gap between the end of the tenon and the bottom of the socket. The overall length will remain the same, and the increased gap space, which increases the volume of the air column, may even slightly flatten the pitch more than it had been.
Series 13 mouthpieces are lower than traditional VDs more, I think because the baffle is a little more scooped out. This also increases the air volume while is changes the color a little toward what many people call "dark." The intent, as I've heard it, was to "darken" the tone of the otherwise "brighter" traditional VD baffle/chamber shape as well as to bring the pitch down from a nominal 442 to 440. The problem is, as we've discussed many times, the shorter tube notes - especially the throat notes - are going to be more affected by the flattened pitch than the longest notes (the increased volume is a larger percentage of the total volume for the shortest notes than it is for the longest).
That's why I originally asked about choosing D4 and D5 as the Ben's tuning standard. D won't be as affected by the larger volume of the M13 or M15 mouthpieces as much as throat G4-Bb4, but it will be flatter than the lower chalumeau or clarion notes. D5 is an exception, in my own experience with R13 and R13-based instruments (i.e. my 10Gs) in that it also tends to be slightly flat to the of the notes surrounding it. Thus, my questioning whether D4 or D5 is a good note to compare to a tuner.
To Ben, (I'll branch off into pure opinion here) if you're having trouble with tuning using the Vandoren mouthpieces, you could certainly try a traditional M15 (I don't think there is a non-13 M13, which was the original flagship of the series). The Hite might play higher, although it wouldn't be my choice of mouthpiece in general. You might be better off trying out other mouthpieces by people like Walter Grabner, Clark Fobes, Greg Smith, or Chris Hill. The Hills I've been using actually tend to be a little sharper than others I've played in the past few years, but are definitely very usable with my standard barrels pulled out just a tad farther. I think the Vito and the plastic generics trade off too much in tone quality and response to be worth whatever pitch problem they may solve for you.
Karl
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Author: Ben Shaffer
Date: 2017-01-31 02:09
Well, I went to a local Music shop and as luck would have it the Owner had a box with maybe 50 used barrels!
I found 13 that were in the range I was looking for.
Hes allowed me to take them home and try them out.
Hopefully I'll find one that will do the trick.
Now they aren't high end barrels, but then again I'm not playing with the Pittsburgh Symphony
I'm sure I could find a MP that would tune well with my current Barrels, but lord know how long it would take to find it!
Will update on these potential barrels.......
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Author: Bob Bernardo
Date: 2017-01-31 03:15
Check the tuning with the barrels. Nice music store!
Designer of - Vintage 1940 Cicero Mouthpieces and the La Vecchia mouthpieces
Yamaha Artist 2015
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Author: Tony F
Date: 2017-01-31 08:48
A few years back I had an urgent need to shorten a mouthpiece and had no access to a lathe. I wrapped a length of suitable dowelling with plumbers tape such that the mouthpiece was a very firm fit on it. I drilled a hole just big enough to clear the dowel in a block of hardwood, greased it liberally with axle grease and pushed the dowel through. With the hardwood block mounted in a vice
I had a friend rotate the dowel using a bow, as with a bow-drill.
With the mouthpiece firmly held on the tape and squared up I ground the shoulder back about 2mm with a Dremel, and then ground the tenon back the same. I didn't go into the cork, although I did reduce the shoulder width by 2mm. It did a very neat job in about 10 minutes and the fix worked, and has to this day. Not recommended, but sometimes you have to improvise.
Tony F.
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Author: Bob Bernardo
Date: 2017-01-31 10:04
Creative! Tony. I use a lathe spinning slowly, to avoid chipping the mouthpiece. But i also will consider working on the tip and then refacing the mouthpiece too. It depends. A lot of it is "Feel."
Designer of - Vintage 1940 Cicero Mouthpieces and the La Vecchia mouthpieces
Yamaha Artist 2015
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Author: dorjepismo ★2017
Date: 2017-02-01 03:56
Thanks, Tony! That would have done it. I used some of that hardening putty someone mentioned awhile back to fill in the groove I inadvertently cut in the tenon and it sounds good again, but I can't ever let the maker see it now.
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