 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Matt74
Date: 2017-01-15 21:40
I have seen people asking questions similar to this but...
I have a Bundy I fixed up. There are no leaks. It passes suction and blow tests. I checked it with a light. The pads are new.
In the upper register there is a very high harmonic or partial present in addition to the note being played. It moves with the note being played. At times it is quite audible to me. I tried two different mouthpieces, and different reeds. I asked someone to listen when I was playing and they could not hear it, but I'm not sure how well they listen.
What causes this? Can you get rid of it?
- Matthew Simington
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Author: Tony F
Date: 2017-01-16 02:54
If you are the only person to hear it it could be a characteristic of your own hearing. A few years back I had to take anti-inflammatory medications for a while following knee surgery. This brought on a mild case of tinnitus, which is a common side-effect of this medication. The tinnitus lasted about 6 months, and during that time I could hear what sounded to me like a metallic undertone on certain notes. I spent a lot of fruitless effort trying to eliminate it, but when I stopped taking the medication the tinnitus stopped and so did the metallic undertone. It has never returned. I made no equipment changes.
Tony F.
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Author: kdk
Date: 2017-01-16 05:33
Tony suggests one strong possibility if you're taking a medicine that you haven't taken before. Even a bad ear infection can cause a player to hear weird things in his sound because the part of the tone that reaches the ear through the air may be changed in relation to the part transmitted by bone conduction.
But it doesn't sound from your post as though this is your only clarinet, and tinnitus or temporary hearing changes would move from one instrument to another. Does the same thing happen with other clarinets or only this Bundy? Does the harmonic appear if you use this mouthpiece on another instrument?
Assuming it's unique to the Bundy:
If it's a metallic kind of ringing, it could be some metal part vibrating against another one, or a spring that's loose somewhere. You'd probably find this most easily by playing a note that causes the harmonic and either systematically touching all the keys yourself to see if touching any of them stops the ring, or having someone else briefly hold each key while you play.
It could be a "singing" pad - the tear that's vibrating could be outside the pad seat, so it might vibrate while the pad is open and not leak during a leak test, when it's closed. In the same way, it could be dirt in a tone hole that's open most of the time that you're playing in the register that's affected (e.g. LH 1st finger if by high register you mean altissimo, register vent if you just mean clarion notes).
It could be something in your ligature that only gets excited enough or high enough for you to notice when you're playing in a high range. If you tend at all to leak air around your embouchure, the air can cause a vibration as it hits an edge of the ligature (especially a metal one) the way a flute tone is produced.
Where in the clarinet's range does this begin to happen? Are you talking about clarion or altissimo? Can you describe it any more completely than "a very high harmonic or partial?" It's always hard to work from a verbal description of something that probably would be clearer if it could actually be heard.
Karl
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Author: Matt74
Date: 2017-01-16 21:19
Guys on the repair group seem to think it might be the keywork vibrating sympathetically.
It doesn't only happen on that horn, which makes me think it's me, but it only rarely happens on my horn, and I'm half convinced that when it happens on my horn that it's environmental - like the sound of a fan running somewhere interacting with the instrument's sound. It ALWAYS happens on the Bundy, and really bad. So, it could be something in my head (literally), and the Bundy just happens to hit the "sweet spot". However, it definitely sounds like it's actually coming from the horn, not added to the horn.
It's the whole clarion, although long C and above are worse than long B. The horn in the chalumeau is kind of buzzy, but I don't hear a separate note. I didn't notice it in the altissimo.
It sounds exactly like a harmonic or partial breaking through. I've tried to figure out which harmonic, but I have a lousy ear. It sounds like a consonance. It may not be the same harmonic of each note - the sound accompaining open C is not an octave above that of long C - that would be screeching. It might be a harmonic of a different fundamental - which suggests it's in my head. It sounds like a consonance, but it's high enough that it's hard to tell, and the harmonics are closer higher up so it might be moving around in a smaller range. I just wish I could tell what pitch.
- Matthew Simington
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Author: kdk
Date: 2017-01-16 22:05
Matt74 wrote:
> It's the whole clarion, although long C and above are worse
> than long B. The horn in the chalumeau is kind of buzzy, but I
> don't hear a separate note. I didn't notice it in the
> altissimo.
>
Have you taken the register key off and cleaned out the vent tube?
Your saying the chalumeau "is kind of buzzy" makes me wonder if the buzz below the break and the harmonic above it may be the same thing, but you hear buzz because the frequency of the extra vibration is lower and "harmonic" as the pitch rises.
I'm always suspicious when someone says categorically that a clarinet doesn't leak based on home suction or blow tests. The standard you're using is how long a suction holds or whether you hear (or see, if you're using smoke) air escaping when you blow into the section. You don't really know how much longer a suction might hold if some little leak were closed up. Are you using rubber stoppers or your fingers/hand to close the holes and the end of the section? A magnahelic machine might in this case give you (or, at least, it would give me) much more confidence. A tiny leak that would not affect the response significantly might, if it's in exactly the right (wrong?) spot cause an acoustic effect that's hard to identify or locate.
For myself, I would make sure there's no metal vibrating, then I'd probably take it to a well equipped shop and have it bench-tested. If it does really well on a vacuum machine, you might just have to put it aside until some better idea comes along.
Karl
Post Edited (2017-01-16 23:02)
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Author: MichaelW
Date: 2017-01-17 01:51
If you suspect it could be "in your head", that might be some form of "dysakusis": Try to find out if you hear that "ringing" on both ears or on one only. I myself suffer from that on my right ear, especially annoying when listening to loud piano music so I sometimes close that ear with a finger.
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Author: Jeroen
Date: 2017-01-17 01:54
It could be the skin of a fresh pad that resonates. Or a pad with broken skin.
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Author: Matt74
Date: 2017-01-17 22:16
By "in my head" I was thinking that something in there was either vibrating or acting as a resonator/amplifier.
My confidence level on the leak front is very high. I'm not perfect, but I've been over it many times. I even bought tools to fix the tone holes. It could be a pad vibrating, but I've tried ironing them.
I agree about the buzzing in the lower register. That's one thing that makes me think it's the horn.
Someone else mentioned the register tube, I'll check.
I guess I'll take it apart (again). What I'd like to do is burn it. I liked the Bundy Alto Saxophone I played in HS for marching, but this is something else entirely.
- Matthew Simington
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2017-01-18 09:30
First thing to try is play the problematic notes, then let go of the register key to close it and keep playing the higher problematic notes. That will almost always show whether it's something to with the register tube or not.
Then try playing with the upper section only and see if the problem is still there. That can show whether it's something with the lower section or not.
Even if both tests are "negative" at least it narrows it down very quickly.
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