 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: locke9342
Date: 2017-01-08 07:49
I have a 576bc and the Eb lever hits the bridge key when it's lined up properly. I can skew it so the Eb lever hits the post, but then it would be misaligned. I attached some pictures. Can anyone confirm if this is the way it's supposed to be set up?
*edit*
it's not letting me attach pictures for whatever reason
"either you are not the author or the maximum amount of attachments has been reached"
Post Edited (2017-01-08 07:51)
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2017-01-08 08:04
I can't tell much from the picture, but it's possible one of the bridge keys is bent so that when "lined up" the sections are rotated slightly out of alignment. The Eb lever (the bumper cork under it) normally hits the post when the bridge keys are aligned.
Karl
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2017-01-08 08:07
http://imgur.com/a/5VmVD
You mean the side Eb key (or Eb/Bb key) - the Eb lever is the term used for the LH Ab/Eb lever that duplicates the Ab/Eb key on the lower joint.
The Leblanc style keywork you have there with the thick key arms and soldered touchpieces does have some drawbacks and limitations where space is at a premium, so you may have to have the keywork bent in specific places or even have metal removed from the affected keys to prevent them clattering. Leblanc style keywork also favours using thin key corks, but I'm sure a decent repairer will know how to put things right.
Side (and trill) keys are often a problem when it comes to noise and clattering with each other and other keys on the top joint.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: locke9342
Date: 2017-01-08 09:12
I did mean the Eb BB trill key my bad
What pictures do you need to confirm your theories? Because for sure when the bridge is lined up the trill key is not hitting the post and it's always been that way.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2017-01-08 09:24
I've seen this on several Leblanc, Noblet, Normandy and Vito instruments that have the same keywork as your clarinet - on my own Leblanc LL I had to make a recess on the underside edge of the side Eb/Bb key arm so it didn't clatter against the bridge key. The pad was already the correct thickness and the venting was good, so a thicker key cork would compromise the venting, so the only option was to file enough metal away without compromising the strength of the side key.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: locke9342
Date: 2017-01-08 09:52
I've never seen anyone else with this problem on their Ridenour 576bc is this just a defect with mine? Can anyone else with their own 576bc verify this?
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2017-01-08 17:34
It looks to me in the 3rd picture as though the bridge key on both the upper and lower sections is bent up. You may have inadvertently and over time bent the key end up while assembling your instrument.
You'd need some flat key-bending pliers to "unbend" the upper and lower arms.
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Author: jdbassplayer
Date: 2017-01-08 17:51
I have a Ridenour Lyrique Libertas and yes you do have to twist the joints slightly to make sure the cork on the Eb key hits the post for the lower ring keys. Please do not listen to the post above about bending the bridge key. I've seen so many hack jobs of people trying to bend keys with the wrong tool. If you try to bend the bridge down you will ruin the venting of some notes. You will just have to find the "sweet spot" where the key cork for the Eb/Bb just hits the post by rotating the two joints. Your instrument should be fine as it is.
-Jdbassplayer
Post Edited (2017-01-08 17:53)
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Author: jdbassplayer
Date: 2017-01-08 17:55
Attachment: IMG_2543.JPG (745k)
Here is a picture showing the "sweet spot" for my instrument. The very edge of the cork should just touch the post.
-Jdbassplayer
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2017-01-08 17:57
jdbassplayer wrote:
> I have a Ridenour Lyrique Libertas and yes you do have to twist
> the joints slightly to make sure the cork on the Eb key hits
> the post for the lower ring keys. Please do not listen to the
> post above about bending the bridge key. I've seen so many hack
> jobs of people trying to bend keys with the wrong tool. If you
> try to bend the bridge down you will ruin the venting of some
> notes. You will just have to find the "sweet spot" where the
> key cork for the Eb/Bb just hits the post by rotating the two
> joints. Your instrument should be fine as it is.
>
> -Jdbassplayer
So you're 100% sure about that?
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: jdbassplayer
Date: 2017-01-08 18:05
Chris,
Yes. I've bought and sold about 30 Ridenour clarinets (TR 147s, Ariosos, 576s, etc...) and most of them require the joints to be ever so slightly twisted so the Eb/Bb doesn't hit the bridge key.
-Jdbassplayer
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2017-01-08 18:31
jdbassplayer wrote:
> Chris,
>
> Yes. I've bought and sold about 30 Ridenour clarinets (TR 147s,
> Ariosos, 576s, etc...) and most of them require the joints to
> be ever so slightly twisted so the Eb/Bb doesn't hit the bridge
> key.
>
> -Jdbassplayer
But why would that be a deliberate design feature over all of Ridenour's lines. And if it isn't a design feature, it would indicate that the bridge keys on the instruments you mention are all out of optimal adjustment. If that's the case, why wouldn't you want to get the bridge keys adjusted back to optimal - whether you do it yourself or bring it in to an experienced tech?
Karl
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Author: jdbassplayer
Date: 2017-01-08 18:56
Actually my Libertas has a thicker key cork so even if the joints are not in proper alignment the key will not click. For all intents and purposes the probem is fixed on the Libertas. However I still find that the instrument feels most comfortable and plays the best when the joints are slightly twisted so the trill key hits the post and not the bridge key. The bridge key is actually in perfect adjustment when the joints are like this so I assume these instruments are intended to be like this. Even if you do consider this a problem bending the bridge key will not help, but rather it will cause venting problems. The problem can be fixed by adding a thicker key cork to the trill key but again I still find it's best to twist the joints so the trill key hits the post. I do not know why these instruments were made this way, I just know they were.
-Jdbassplayer
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Author: Burt
Date: 2017-01-08 20:25
Try rotating the lower joint so that when you press the Eb/Bb key, it hits the post. There should be plenty of clearance between the left hand C#/G# and E/B keys. Then try the low Bb, and then the 1 and 1 Bb (above the staff) fingering. If you trouble with either of these, then you need to change the shim cork on the bridge so that both of the holes controlled by the bridge can be closed simultaneously.
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Author: locke9342
Date: 2017-01-12 05:49
I've been rotating it since I got it, but in order to hit the post I have to rotate it a lot. Like the right end of the top joint (looking down towards the bell) is in line with the right end of the bottom joint. It looks like it's supposed to line up in the middle. I don't think it affects anything, so I'll just deal with it for now I guess.
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2017-01-12 11:00
The question is, is the end (touchpiece) of the Eb/Bb key completely missing the post (i.e. just moves to the side of it) or is it still above it but just doesn't reach because it is hitting the bridge key first?
The alignment of the joints should really be chosen depending on what is most comfortable to the player rather than what looks "correct". Most clarinets are comfortable with the "correct" alignment because they are already made that way with this in mind.
If the problem is the former (i.e. the key completely missing the post when the sections are in a comfortable alignment) then it might be trickier to fix, unless it's something simple like a bent Eb/Bb key, or a cork that is too angled inwards (the photos don't show if that's the case or not). Or maybe the touchpiece wasn't soldered in the right position.
If the problem is the latter, first question is whether Eb/Bb is opening enough... or possibly more than enough? Because then a thicker cork could fix it, as long as it doesn't cause the key to not vent enough.
There are other ways that could fix it, maybe removing part of the Eb/Bb arm, or the bridge key could be bent (depending on the exact way the key responds to bending in any specific place, which is something you need to feel and can't judge from a photo).
Pretty much anything can be fixed but knowing what's the best way to do it would usually require seeing the clarinet and checking.
Post Edited (2017-01-13 23:07)
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