 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Melinda
Date: 2001-05-28 13:16
I recently purchased a Conn 424 clarinet, and decided to undertake the re-pad job myself. Unfortunately, this horn has been unused for years, and I can't get many of the screws to turn so that I can take it apart start the re-padding. Any suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks!
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Author: Melinda
Date: 2001-05-28 13:19
oops - it should read: take it apart AND start the re-padding. (sorry)
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Author: Mike Irish
Date: 2001-05-28 13:39
have you tryed oiling them? do not use tooo much at a time ... just enough to moisten the screw head..... down want to get the oil all over the horn....
on something like that you definetly do not want to put too much tourqu on it and tapping would not be wise either..... I have found that in some instances, to break a screw loose, I have turned it as to tighten it, and then backed it out... dont work in all cases.......
be patient.... have seen it where putting alot of force on something would actually bind it where it wouldnt turn... and then letting it rest, would turn easily....( dont aske me how it works.. )
have fun with it...
Mike
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Author: Bill
Date: 2001-05-28 13:56
I agree with Mike's reply. I would use a penetrating oil like liquid wrench or WD-40, with the appropriate measures taken to avoid getting it on the horn. I'd also make sure my screw driver blade was in very good condition, and the right size -- to avoid damaging the screw head.
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Author: Anji
Date: 2001-05-28 14:10
Been here, done this...
Get one of those disposable "Glad" or variants of the plastic food box (with a seal around the top).
It needs to be sufficiently deep to hold the bell, lying on it's side.
I keep the upper joint hardware and lower joint hardware in separate ziploc bags (labelled to avoid confusion).
I wouldn't worry about penetrating oil on the wood surface, oil it with a Q-tip and Almond oil BEFORE you apply the penetrating stuff and the surface should be protected.
I use the little spray can of Liquid wrench for this pupose, as do the guys posting above. You will need a 2mm wide, .2mm-.4mm thick blade with a long shaft.
I filed down a cheapo Craftsman screwdriver to this purpose.
Spritz down the offending joints, stick them in the Food box and leave it overnight.
If it won't turn in the morning, another shot and a full 24 hours waiting.
If it STILL won't turn, this is a job for the pros. You will do more damage forcing these, and it will be worth the bench time (I know, this defeats the purpose.)
I like Simichrome polish to brighten the keys..
What sort of pads will you apply?
Let us know how it is going?
anji
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2001-05-28 14:18
You need really good quality screw drivers. It makes a huge difference. Uncompromised high alloy steel, long shafts (6"), and large diameter handles (at least 3/8") with a wide swivel head, and perfectly matched blade-width. Those from Kraus are the best I have used but you'll pay megabucks for them.
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Author: Dee
Date: 2001-05-28 15:11
You may need to apply the penetrating oil several times and let it sit in between applications.
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Author: jbutler
Date: 2001-05-28 15:39
Whatever you do, don't break off the slot in the screw! Using too much force and a cheap screwdriver will ultimately prove disasterous. Heat applied to the screw can help with the capillary action of the penetrating oil. I use nitro solvent from a gun supply. Apply it with an oiler and apply sparingly. You don't have to "hose" the instrument down with penetrating oil; that is unecessary. A good heat source as to not damage the clarinet is a soldering gun with the tip sawed as to make a "split". The split should be just enough to contact both sides of the rod. Use a gun with at least 100 watts. I used to use a solder gun until I got the Votaw pad cup heater tool. I used a 140 watt, but if you go this high you need to be careful, it heats pretty fast. Last but most importantly....BE PATIENT AND DON'T FORCE ANYTHING. I've had rusted screws that I've repeated the oiling and heating process for a week...but I've always got them out eventually.
John
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2001-05-28 18:10
J B's advice,be sure to heed!! Has anyone mentioned that some early Conn cls had very small set screws at right-angles to the rods and screws? I came close to disaster before I found them!! Tread lightly! Don
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Author: ron b
Date: 2001-05-28 19:18
Melinda
There's no substiture for close examination and planning ahead. Look carefully for those set screws Don mentions and, if your horn has them, when you take them out (if you need to get them *all* the way out) don't lose them. They're expert at fleeing and hiding. Could keep you busy for hours with flashlight and magnet just to find one of the little rascals. Best to work carefully over a cloth covered flat surface.
J is, as always, exactly on target. Oil and heat, oil and heat. Try turning, with a slight back and forth motion without excessive force. Keep doing this. LIke Dee says, it may take a lot of applications of oil and letting it sit for a (long) time to let it soak in. Then do it some more :|
Good tools and well functioning solder gun or other heat source are essential. If you don't have those, and a whole lot of patience, consider a trip to your local repair shop. It sounds like you're interested in doing a pad job and not so much the tedious drudgery of prepping the thing. The getting it ready part can really kill your enthusiasm if you're not into that sort of thing. If not, let the shop get the screws unstuck for you, with the right tools and experience, then You have the fun of re-padding it. You'll still save money by doing the balance of the labor, the padding part, yourself :]
- ron b -
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Author: jbutler
Date: 2001-05-28 19:57
Don and Ron are correct. The early Conn's have a set screw that holds the pivot in place. They ARE easily lost, but Ferree's and Kraus does sell them if you need replacements.
John
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Author: Claude
Date: 2001-05-28 21:18
I have had a similar problem trying to unscrew a rusty pivot on a metal clarinet . The pivot was treated with WD-40 before I tried to unscrew it. It was easy to start unscrewing it putting very little force. To my surpise, it was coming out easy for 2 to 3 mm and it stop coming but was still turning easily. I pulled it out and I realized that half of the threaded part stayed in. It broke in the middle of the threaded part of the pivot. Any suggestion? Can this be removed by a specialist? Thanks for your advice. I would like to give this metal clarinet a second life.
Claude
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Author: Melinda
Date: 2001-05-28 21:32
Thanks for all the help! I had thought of WD-40, but was afraid of what it might do to the wood. I applied it carefully with a Q-tip, and that helped a lot - it took 2 applications, though.
Then there was the issue of the teeny, tiny set screws - I wasn't taking them all the way out. (Thanks, Don!) I read a tip in another post that recommended covering your work area with a white sheet - and now I know why!
Thanks to everyone who answered---progress is now being made!!!
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Author: Dee
Date: 2001-05-28 21:42
I think a repair tech would have the equipment to get out a screw that has broken inside the rod.
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Author: Dee
Date: 2001-05-28 21:45
Yes many of the Conns, especially the Pan Americans, had set screws and they do get lost easily. However, if you can't find a source for the set screws you can simply put clear nail polish over the head of the pivot screw after putting it in and you should be ok. I would advise checking the pivot screws regularly though for any that may be backing out, retightening and redoing the nail polish as needed. You see I had an old Conn Pan Am that was missing half the set screws when I got it.
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Author: ron b
Date: 2001-05-29 03:38
Dee -
I'd bet your Pan Am plays just as well (or, better?) : without the set screws. I've never found a satisfactory explanation for them other than driving people nuts trying to figure out why they're there. Some think the keywork designer was a sax specialist with a big budget.
A tiny drill bit (the kind you find at a jewelry tool supply store) at VERY slow speed, at the broken end, will often turn the broken pivot screw, or any other broken off screw, out through the post. The slow turning and light pressure is intended to cause the drill to 'catch' on the, hopefully rough, broken surface. Make sure the horn is held very tight, preferably in a drill press jig, when doing this. You may have to remove some keys. That way, too, you can turn the drill by hand while applying a little pressure to the broken screw.
- ron b -
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2001-05-29 14:05
The set screws: If they are lost Loctite does just as good a job.
If a screw slot is ruined I make a new slot (inside the post) with my dentist drill and a very small burr.
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Author: Eric Satterlee
Date: 2001-06-05 20:06
Oiing is a good start but you are never going to get out a rested hinge rod without the combination of heating and oiling... the F60 mini torch from Ferree's is perfect for this...
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