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Author: graham
Date: 2001-05-28 11:50
Following the interesting discussion last week on this topic I visually compared the top joint bore of my B flat, my basset horn, and my bass.
Whereas the tone hole openings of the bass are a good deal larger than the b flat and basset horn (as you would expect) the difference in size between the b flat and the basset horn was very small, and in the case of some holes the basset horn was smaller. What was immediately clear was that each tone hole took up less of the bore proportionately than in the case of the b flat, or the bass. In that regard the bass and the b flat were about the same. So, on a simple eyeball comparison the design of a Buffet basset horn involves proportionately smaller tone holes positioned (presumably) higher up the bore.
Those who have alto clarinets can make the same observation to find out whether the same is true, or whether they are proportionately similar to the b flat and bass. If they are, then that suggests that the big difference between a basset horn and an alto is not the bore, but the design and positioning of the tone holes. That should in theory produce a very different response and sound, and might be of considerably greater importance than the question of bore dimensions.
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Author: Mario
Date: 2001-05-28 16:47
Exactly. I am not really sure how the Alto clarinet emerged over time, but the Basset Horn is a direct extension of sopranos clarinets family.
Toward the end of the 19th century and for about 20 years thereafter (the so-called golden age of winds), the mechanical developments of the clarinets were minimal. Many of the greatest works for clarinets were composed for 5-key primitive instruments. Mind you, the tone was absolutely wonderful: pure and sweet. But playing in any kind of remote keys was difficult.
So, clarinetists tended to lug around many instruments in different keys. Naturally, we know about the C, Bb, A nowadays. And we also hear sometimes about the D sopranino and naturally, about the Eb sopranino. There was also a G clarinet just between the A and the Basset Horn (F).
In order to facilitate transitions, this family of instruments was created with bore and tone holes dimensions minimizing fingers and mouthpieces issues. So, it was "design-intent" to have the Basset Horn as a tight instrument (bore-wise and tone-hole-wise). The Basset Horn was merely a big brother of this continum of clarinets starting with C and going all the way down to F. It is also why the Basset Horn is such a lovely instrument (yet not very powerful). This tight bore (relatively speaking) promotes purety of color at the expense of volume.
The alto (Eb) seem to have been created much later, essentially as a response to the emergence of Eb saxophone in marching bands (something to validate here by a real expert). It was never meant to extend the soprano family and was invented at a time where big tone holes far away could be controlled through mechanical means. It is why there is a substantial difference between the F and Eb clarinets. It is the same thing for the bass clarinet in Bb which is a fairly late addition to the clarinet family.
Unfortunately, the alto clarinet does not have instrinsic tonal quality and it requires a fabulous player to cox out of the thing anything worth listening to. It is why it is slowly dying, while the Basset Horn is coming back (because it is simply very beautiful).
A nice piece of trivia: The sublime Mozart K.622 was started first as a Concerto for a G Basset Clarinet (a clarinet in G extended to low C). Stadler had Basset clarinets in the key of Bb, A and G. Mozart changed his mind half-way through the writing of the concerto and moved everything to A. While the G and A basset clarinet sounded about the same (with the G a bit more pastoral than the A), the use of Concert A allowed Mozart to take advantage of this unique contrast between the vigorous Concert A key for the orchestra with a pastoral instrument for the solo. In his mind at least, Concert G key (a peaceful and bland key in Mozart's mind) was not allowing anough constrast with the G clarinet.
And yes, G clarinets still exists today. A form of Autrichian dance music (Schrammel music - small combos made out of guitars, strings and clarinets playing alpine music in Vienna dance halls - Shrammel was as popular as the Strauss at the end of the 19th Century) routinely makes use of G clarinets. Actually, G clarinets even exists in two form: the big G and the small G (a bit bigger than the rare sopranino Ab clarinet). An exceptional Schrammel music group located in Montreal uses the small G all the time. For those who know the Ab, it sounds the same.
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Author: Mario
Date: 2001-05-28 17:49
We keep coming back to Mozart when we speak about the evolution of the clarinet. What was going on in Mozart's mind w.r.t. to our beloved instrument?
Well, he knew about clarinets quite early in his life and actually started to use them in chamber music and symphony in his early twenties (for instance, the Paris Symphony).
Mozart was strongly influenced by Stamitz the Composer (creator of 10 clarinet concertos, a couple of them actually worth learning still today). Stamitz, at Mannheim, was also the Conductor of the local orchestra and was a keen user of clarinets. Mozart was profondly admirative of Stamitz and the Mannheim orchestra, and learned quite a few tricks by listening to them.
Mozart then moved to Vienna, and the clarinet takes off. Why? Four things came together: Mozart, Stadler, the strong clarinet tradition in Vienna, AND the revolutionary spirit of the time (this is the most important point):
Mozart, in Vienna, started using his music for revolutionary (ie.: political) reasons. For instance, Mozart was the first to push heavily on the use of German in Opera instead of Italian (quite a crime of heresy on his days). To send his messages, Mozart needed new distinctive sounds in his symphonies: Bingo: here came the clarinet (replacing the oboe as the fundation of the wind section in orchestra). So, for Mozart, the clarinet was a revolutionary, modern, new, color. Mozart used the clarinet to communicate the need for change to his audience, and burried the oboe deep into the bowels of the wind section. Most composers following him in the 19th century kept using the clarinet as Mozart planned it: the color cornerstone of the winds... You have to wait until the impressionists and the neo-romantics to see the flute getting on top as cornerstone of the symphony wind color.
His last major piece (requiem) uses Basset Horn extensively to convey the feeling of man hurting under the oppression of the aristocratic ruling class. In essence, Mozart was the first "romantic". I wonder what he would have done if he would have lived 30 more years.
Keep that in mind: at some point in time, the clarinet was a "revolutionary" instrument, thanks to Mozart.
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2001-05-28 18:05
AGAIN - Very interesting, Mario - as I tried to say earlier, as best as I can recall, I found lesser tonal difference between my [relatively] small-bore Selmer alto cl and a Selmer basset horn, than with a somewhat larger-bore LeBlanc alto cl. Thus I assume that bore size does play a part. Looking in Brymer p 35+, his discussion of these "altos" is worthwhile reading and needs study with the insts. readily available, which prob. few of us have!! Dr. Etheridge at Okla U has "our" 2 BH's and may have studied these relationships. If I can attend his upcoming Symposium, I'll pursue this [or have my more skillful friends do so!!]. Thanks, Don
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2001-05-28 21:46
Mario wrote:
>
> A nice piece of trivia: The sublime Mozart K.622 was started
> first as a Concerto for a G Basset Clarinet (a clarinet in G
> extended to low C).
Not quite, Mario. It was for a basset horn in G, not basset clarinet. It's called "The Winterthur Fragment" and a copy of it is available here on Sneezy in the Music section.
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Author: Mario
Date: 2001-05-28 22:17
Technically, you are correct. A Basset Horn in G is a small Basset Horn. Question is: as clarinets get bigger, when does it becomes a small Basset Horn?
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Author: joevacc
Date: 2001-05-29 02:18
There are hours of excellent reading in the Klarinet Archives for those who can't get enough on this subject. Type "Basset Horn" or "Eric Hoeprich" and see what pops out. The excitement and suspense as the Pamela Poulin's discovery unfolds is to rival the best of novels! I have been reading since I posted last week and could go on.
It is killing me knowing that we can not hear any of Stadler's performances. There are great examples of The Clarinet Concerto but like modern remakes of pop songs they are probably not as good as the original hit. ;~)
I am looking forward to the recording that Alphie told us about by Eric Hoeprich on Glossa Records. There is a blurb at this address http://www.glossamusic.com/news/ about the upcoming recording and also a blurb about Eric Hoeprich at http://www.glossamusic.com/artists/ehoeprich.htm. This is IMO going to be a very important and exciting recording and I for one can not wait!!
Lots of fun!!!!
jv
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2001-05-29 02:41
Mario,
Technically, never. Period basset horns have bore/length ratios that make them somewhat stuffy, at least as described by people like eric Hoeprich. Today's basset horns are much more similar to alto clarinets than they are to period basset horns. I heard (Hoeprich? He was in the quartet) play one of his period reconstructions (I think you were at the ClarinetFest that time). It has a very different sound than a period clarinet.
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Author: graham
Date: 2001-05-29 07:57
Hoeprich et al recently recorded a basset horn trio using three basset horns from Lotz. I would recommend this CD to people who are interested in basset horns. The instruments were made in 1790 and had not been played since around then. They were played again for the first time to produce this 1999 recording.
At the time I bought this CD I also bought a CD of trios played on modern basset horns and recorded also in the late 1990s. What is striking is the similarity of tone in these performances. The Lotz basset horns sound quite close to the modern ones. Such differences as exist are no greater than you would expect to find between a modern and period clarinet. In particular, the sound is open and clear, and very sweet.
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Author: Alphie
Date: 2001-05-29 11:46
Just for the record:
Not any of Mozart's purposes discribed by Mario concerning changing from G basset horn to A basset clarinet, or his revolutionary mind in these matters have ever been verified and are speculations. You may present this as being your own theory, but not like they were documented facts. They are not.
Alphie
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Author: Ken Shaw
Date: 2001-05-29 18:38
Graham -
At the ClarinetFest in Columbus about 3 years ago, I eavesdropped on a rehearsal of one of the Mozart basset horn trios with Eric Hoeprich, William McColl and a third player, perhaps Alf Hoerberg. The sound made by the instruments was maybe 1/3 the volume of modern basset horns, even the small-bore ones, and the sound was very light. If you're hearing a modern sound from the old instrument record, I think you have the volume turned up too loud. Try turning it down and getting used to a gentle style.
Best regards.
Ken Shaw
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Author: Alphie
Date: 2001-05-29 19:38
I think it was Eric Hoeprich, Carles Riera and Bill McColl who performed at Columbus. Alf Hoerberg was asked but couldn't do it.
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2001-05-29 22:20
Those were the folk. The period basset horns sounded very different than the basset horns of today. Bill McColl was very entertaining in his talk before the music.
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Author: Mario
Date: 2001-06-01 16:39
I agree with Graham latest post (I have the CD he mentioned, attended the Columbus concert, etc.).
With respect to Alphie's last before last post: Yes, indeed these are speculations based on historical analysis of surviving evidences. But, they are not mine. For instance, quite recently, Colin Lawson (on the UK label Clarinet Classics) produced a set called "History of the clarinet" with two exceptional CDs therein. As well, his produced a comprehensive booklet of notes for the set. It was by far the best survey of the history of our instruments that I ever read. Many of the ideas presented in my posts can be found there. This text confirmed and integrated fragments of data that can be found here and there on texts on the clarinet. Mind you, Colin might be wrong.
We do have to keep digging, just for the sheer pleasure of it. At any rate, this set of speculation make for a nice conversation piece.
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