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Author: remyX
Date: 2016-12-21 21:31
My daughter is currently a high school junior and has begun the process of evaluating schools for music performance and/or music education, taking trial lessons etc. etc. Among the schools she is looking at is Baldwin Wallace University Conservatory. From what I can tell, it appears to be a much less 'known' school than the majority of the other schools she is looking at, but could in fact perhaps be a good school for undergraduate work, a diamond in the rough so to speak. The teacher she is looking at is Daniel McKelway. His bio looks quite impressive. She is planning on a visit to meet him and take a trial lesson. Just wondering if anyone has any feedback, recent or past regarding the school, the program, ensembles, professors or anything else for that matter. Thanks.
Post Edited (2016-12-21 21:32)
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2016-12-22 03:22
Daniel McKelway is an amazing player. He will have a lot to give.
In my opinion, any college or conservatory will giver a student more than any one person can possibly master. If Baldwin Wallace appeals to her, by all means she should go.
One thing she can be sure of -- there will be players there who will be better than she is, at least at the outset.
Ken Shaw
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Author: Matt74
Date: 2016-12-22 03:53
FWIW: I would have benefited immensely from going to a real conservatory, instead of "majoring" at a state school. If you are going to do something I think you should do it all the way. There are lots of jobs you can get with a undergraduate degree in music, especially with an Ed degree.
I went to college for 9 years, at 5 different colleges, in 4 states. I've visited a bunch more at various times. The most important things are:
1. Liking the school, community, and environment.
2. Liking your professor and department.
3. Being absolutely sure that the school will deliver exactly what you are working for, including a job (even if that includes getting into a certain kind of graduate school).
If you are from CT I would highly recommend visiting a Midwestern school before attending. This is not East Coast snobbery. It's really different, and I felt very isolated. (I've lived in 9 states.)
- Matthew Simington
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Author: remyX
Date: 2016-12-22 06:00
Ken, thanks for the feedback. Our expectation is that wherever she decides to go to school, she will probably fall some where in the middle, not necessarily the strongest player and not the weakest either based on the discussions with professors at trial lessons she has had thus far. I think this is a good place for her to be. It will provide her with plenty of opportunity to grow.
Thanks Matt as well. Sounds like you are a bit of a journeyman. We are definitely going to visit as many schools as possible and a number of them are in the Midwest (Oberlin, DePaul, University of Michigan, Indiana University, Northwestern, and of course Baldwin Wallace, possibly CIM/Case Western). In addition we are also looking at Eastman and Ithaca College which are East Coast of course, and possibly New England Conservatory although NEC does not have an Ed program which means it may not make the final cut. We are planning to narrow down a bit once we visit and do trial lessons. Right now we are focused in on schools that offer both music performance and music ed.
I guess the question is, does Baldwin Wallace rival any/all of the schools in the above list?
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2016-12-22 17:19
Hi,
I think there is a more fundamental question to answer here and that is what is your daughter's career goal. Does she want to be a band director? If so, she needs to focus not solely on who her clarinet professor will be but rather on the the ensemble performances available and even what is the experience level of the professors in teaching school music.
I'm a former HS and college band director who attended a very fine state university here in OH (we have several with pretty amazing music programs). I used just about everything I learned in my education just about every day. I had great professors who had lots of varied music education positions so I learned much from them.
But I am no slouch as far as my woodwind playing. I picked up a several doubles and some great instruction while in school. I still do a lot playing and have made some good money over the years.
From looking at your list of schools, I think you have too many. From what you have said, your daughter is in the middle of the pack as far as her ability. Will she be able to pass a conservatory audition? I'd start by answering my first question above. Then pare down the list.
HRL
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Author: remyX
Date: 2016-12-22 19:01
Just to clarify about being 'in the middle of the pack', I mean at the conservatory level. So yes I do believe that she will be able to pass a conservatory audition.
I do agree with what you are saying to a certain degree and we expect to have more discussion about this as time goes on. I think my daughter's thought and ours as well was just to have some options, which these schools have. Whether this is the right approach or not, hard for me to say at this point.
With regard to the number of schools currently on the list, we also feel that we may have too many. We expect to pair down once she visits them all, has her trails lessons, talks to teachers and students etc.
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2016-12-22 19:54
remyX,
I understand the "middle of the pack" at the conservatory level. However, what will be the result of her taking a combined performance and education degree? As part of the curriculum at the state universities I referred to, your daughter will, even as a music education major, improve her playing a great deal. Check the music education curriculum and you will see the applied music requirements and ensemble requirements.
Also, making all these trips and scheduling a "trial lesson" is going to take an incredible amount of time and great co-ordination. I wish you luck in accomplishing this goal.
My advice, based on 50+ years as a teacher/professor advising a lot of students and their parents, is to thin your list of schools to a very select few before going any further. Base your selection process on the question I asked in my previous post.
HRL
PS One of the finest music schools in the mid-west is the University of Michigan in Ann Arbor. For me to make this observation is really something since I'm from Ohio.
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Author: maxopf
Date: 2016-12-22 21:25
I'm a first year student in a relatively well-known clarinet studio. I applied to 11 programs last year (comprised of 18 schools/conservatories with 18 separate applications — some of the programs were dual degree programs with 2 schools.) I also took 8 live auditions last year. Was admitted to most of the schools.
Between the sheer number of applications/essays/prescreenings and having to perform 8 live auditions, it was exhausting. I would recommend narrowing down the list so that she doesn't have to audition live at more than ≈5 schools at most. Some schools will accept a video audition in lieu of a live one; I would recommend that for a few of the schools which are not her top choice.
The list you gave is a good one (I would recommend my own school but we don't have a music ed major). I'm less familiar with Baldwin Wallace but I do know a good trumpet player who is majoring in music there.
It is possible to schedule trial lessons, but in my experience, it's not completely necessary except at your top choice schools. I only took one lesson, with my current professor. The audition itself often functions as a sort of mini-lesson, where you can get a sense of how the professor teaches and what their personality is like. It is good to at least visit the schools, to get a sense of whether you would fit in that environment.
Good luck!
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Author: remyX
Date: 2016-12-23 00:06
Hank, yes coordination will be a challenge for sure. I agree U of M is a very formidable school. ... have not visited yet but will be.
maxopf, I appreciate the thoughtful response.
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Author: JamesOrlandoGarcia
Date: 2016-12-24 00:29
Why isn't the daughter herself on the board asking these questions? By this point she should be taking the reins on this process.
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Author: remyX
Date: 2016-12-24 01:17
She is involved in the process and has been contacting and gathering information about the schools, emailing to set up lessons, and working with my wife to coordinate travel arrangements. She also spends a lot of time with other musicians who are or have gone through this process, talking with them and getting advice as well.
Frankly this post was my idea because I was curious. I certainly don't see anything wrong with a parent having an interest in helping their child make the best decision that they can.
Just because she doesn't post on this forum doesn't mean she isn't actively involved.
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Author: clarinetguy ★2017
Date: 2016-12-24 01:23
Hank Lehrer is right:
>I think there is a more fundamental question to answer here and that is what is your daughter's career goal. Does she want to be a band director? If so, she needs to focus not solely on who her clarinet professor will be but rather on the ensemble performances available and even what is the experience level of the professors in teaching school music.
Many high school juniors aren't sure about long-term career goals, and that's fine. If she knows she wants to major in music, this would be a great time for her to carefully explore her options, which would include performance, music education, music therapy, music industry/business, and arts management (there are other possibilities, but I think these are probably the most common).
If your daughter isn't completely sure, I'd suggest a degree in music education because there's a lot one can do with it. The job market for music teachers is a bit tight in certain places, but if one is flexible, there are jobs. It wasn't like this when I entered the profession back in the 70s, but today's music teachers are really expected to be versatile. A music teacher might be asked to teach anything from elementary general music to high school orchestra or marching band. Even though I'm a clarinet player, I taught strings and elementary vocal music at various points in my public school teaching career. I'd suggest that your daughter take piano/keyboard lessons if she hasn't already done so.
When visiting music schools, it isn't a bad idea to meet with the clarinet teacher(s) and possibly have a lesson. At the same time, as Hank suggested, inquire about ensemble performance opportunities. Would it also be possible to sing in a choir or play in a jazz band? What are the degree course requirements? How long does it take most students to graduate?
If your daughter really loves to perform, she can always go on to get a masters in performance. That's fairly common. Depending on the classes she took as an undergrad, she could also go on to get a graduate degree in theory/comp, music lit., music ed., conducting, and a variety of other possibilities--including degree programs outside of music.
Post Edited (2016-12-24 01:25)
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Author: remyX
Date: 2016-12-24 02:08
"I think there is a more fundamental question to answer here and that is what is your daughter's career goal." - Agreed!
What I can tell you with a great degree of certainty is that she loves music and wants it to be a big part of her life. She also loves to perform.
Clarinetguy, yes thanks for the feedback.
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Author: Christopher Bush
Date: 2016-12-25 03:14
Hi remyX,
To get back to the original question, Dan McKelway is an outstanding musician. He and I both studied with Bob Listokin, although a number of years apart, and he seems to have carried on many of the great aspects of Bob's teaching. I've known a few young students of Dan's and they all had wonderful things to say about him and his teaching. He's an intersection of a good person, good teacher, and good musician. I've played and chatted with a number of BW alumni and they all seemed pleased with the place.
I would be happy to extol the virtues of specific schools and teachers, especially in the Northeast, but I'm afraid I might also run afoul of self-advertising rules. Feel free to email me and I can give you unvarnished opinions. There are a great many excellent teachers out there these days.
One thing to definitely keep in mind is how alumni fare after their studies in a particular Music Education program. Some schools are better than others shepherding their kids through the certification process and the job application gamut. Where your student wants to teach is important too, as some states have reciprocal certification agreements with others.
Good luck to your daughter! Even if she doesn't consider a school in NYC, I'd be happy to hear her play and help in any way I can. Just let me know.
Christopher Bush
Prof. of Clarinet - NYU
Princ. Clarinet - Glens Falls Symphony, Metro Chamber Orchestra
Director - NYU Composers Ensemble
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Author: Bob Bernardo
Date: 2016-12-25 06:53
It seems like a Masters Degree is becoming a must have degree and in some cases a Doctorate comes in handy if you want to teach at a college level. I met a musician at the Clarinetfest in August who was in an army band and had a doctorate. 28 years old. Crazy, even the military bands are only accepting top players, so you probably have to have at least a BA to get into a military band now or a Masters.
Ithaca is also a very good school. I think Indiana has 4 great instructors with many years of student success stories. Yes it's big, but she won't get lost. It's always listed as a top music school. If she want to perform a lot take a look at these 2 schools. There is Catholic University where she could start with her BA and go all the through her doc degree. She would of course be exposed to all sorts of playing experiences with this school and outside of the school.
Just some thoughts! I went to Peabody Conservatory in Baltimore and it's really expensive, so avoid that school and conservatories in general unless you can get scholarships.
Another thought is to get her BA degree and join the services as a Weekend Reserve performer and then the military will pay for the rest of her schooling. A good place to look into would again be Catholic University and she might be able to be stationed locally at Ft Meade just outside of DC. Again, just some thoughts to consider. A possible way to save $150,000 or more.
Designer of - Vintage 1940 Cicero Mouthpieces and the La Vecchia mouthpieces
Yamaha Artist 2015
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Author: remyX
Date: 2016-12-25 20:29
Thank you Christopher for the input. That is very generous offer. I will be in touch soon. Thanks again.
Bob thanks for the feedback. I don't think she is looking at Peabody anyway because she wasn't interested in living in Baltimore. Although she does think very highly of the teachers there.
It's funny that you mention the military because we have a neighbour whose daughter is a clarinet player and currently plays for the Army Band. I have spoken with her about it. I am not sure if my daughter would consider the military however. But it's good to have options.
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Author: Bob Bernardo
Date: 2016-12-25 22:04
I wasn't a military type of person and as soon as I had a chance to get out I did. But the cool part was all of the musicians were pretty nice and very cool. They were there to play and play well. When I was in you went in as a higher rake, E5 or E6 compared to an E1. So the pay sale level was a lot higher. Maybe $1000 or more per month? But these were with the selected bands. I was glad to get out, but 35 years later I am still in contact with some of the musicians. It was a close family, but military life wasn't for me. I went in as an E6. Some of the player I think could probably nail a major symphony job and surely teach college. The talent is that high.
I also took employment in 2 colleges for 6 months, just hated teaching.
It's a way to teach and get a free or discounted education. There were/are some players that stayed in for life, 30 years.
As already said, just ideas...
Designer of - Vintage 1940 Cicero Mouthpieces and the La Vecchia mouthpieces
Yamaha Artist 2015
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