 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Bill
Date: 2001-05-26 15:04
I have a new professional level Leblanc Bb clarinet. It was play tested before I got it.
It plays okay in the Chalumeau range.
The problem is with the Clarion F sounding stuffy or hesitating to sound. It plays okay going up the scale, e.g., from Clarion B, but "hesitates" coming down, e.g., from Clarion G to F. The problem appears to be the lower section ring key (key above top ring) not sealing well when the horn is assembled, or requiring heavy pressure on the 1st ring to close the key. If I put my index finger on the key, instead of the first ring, the Clarion F sounds okay. F# is not as bad as F.
I checked the sealing of the key pad, with a cigarette paper "feeler guage", with the lower section removed from the upper section. It seems okay. With the clarinet assembled, there is very little drag (with one section of the key pad) with the first ring held down lightly, and the resistance is higher with the key pressed down firmly. In going from light pressure on the key to hard pressure, there seems to be some "springyness".
What is the fix for this problem?
Note: The cork on the linkage is already very thin.
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Author: Dee
Date: 2001-05-26 15:34
Perhaps one of the keys or rings is very slightly bent. Take it into a repair tech, explain the problem, and they can almost certainly fix it. The key just isn't closing quite enough.
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Author: Bill
Date: 2001-05-26 15:39
Dee - thanks: I don't have a local repair tech, so if there is a simple home remedy (like sanding the linkage cork) this would be my first choice.
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Author: jr
Date: 2001-05-26 15:53
The bridge key on the upper joint flares out for
reason, twist the upper and lower joints slightly
until the cig paper draws evenly from under both
pads.
You can also adjust the bridge by holding the ring an pad down and using your thumb to move the bridge up or down as needed (if you have smooth jawed pliers that won't scratch the keys, use them to adjust the bridge. You may need to go back and forth several times till you get it right.
jr
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Author: Dee
Date: 2001-05-26 15:56
Sanding the linkage cork will not help at all as it is not the problem. The problem is that when you press on the ring, the key cup just above it isn't going down enough. It will almost certainly require bending of the arm of the keycup, ring, or rod. This is NOT a home remedy. Somehow you need to get to a repair tech on this one. If necessary, phone around and find someone you can make an appointment with for a weekend trip.
Where are you located? While there are some places it could be several hours drive to get to a tech, you'd be surprised at how many rural areas do have technicians who can handle ordinary services like this.
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2001-05-26 16:38
Your problem sounds to me [also] as a bridge-key situation. Can you feel a movement in the upper joint ring when you press [lightly] a L J ring. If so, it needs adjustment [or a new pad, on the LJ, maybe the UJ also]. These must be well coordinated to provide the "long Eb/Bb" as well as ease of sounding Bb/F. Also check to see if the LJ pad rises sufficiently to get a good C/G . All of us "amateurs" will bow to the knowledge and experience of our pros in this advice, however. Luck, Don
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Author: jbutler
Date: 2001-05-26 17:14
The bridge key linkage is not aligned properly. The upper joint Eb/Ab is probably hitting before the lower joint Bb/F. The linkage has probably been bent DOWN (if I'm reading your post correctly). Bending it (the upper joint bridge key) upwards (gently) with a pliers that are not serrated (as to not mark the key) until both close at the same rate is what needs to be done. A pair of round nose chain pliers should do. I don't know if you have the expertise for this or not. It's your choice if you want to try it or not.
John Butler
Instrument Restoration
935 Eldridge Rd #337
Sugar Land, Tx 77478
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Author: Bill
Date: 2001-05-26 19:11
First, thanks to all for the input. I am pleased that everyone understood my question, and with the helpful replies.
Additional Info: When I assemble a horn, I like having the upper section rings precisely in line with the lower section rings. I tried assembling the horn so that the rings are not in line (the upper section 4 trill keys turned slightly, but noticably, in the direction of the lower section rings). The horn plays beautifully, and fingers smoothly. It's not uncomfortable to hold, and play with this assembly.
Don: Yes, I can feel the movement.
John: Did you really mean upper joint Eb/Ab? I'd really like to give it a try, but with my lack of experience I'd probably make it worse &/or create some additional problems.
Dee: I live in Oceanport, NJ - one mile west of the Atlantic ocean, a two hour drive south to Atlantic City, and a 1 1/2 hour train ride north to Manhatten. It's not that rural, and it's hard to believe that the music stores send woodwinds away for repair. If I have to travel more than a 1/2 hour, I prefer to send the horn off for repair myself.
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2001-05-26 19:34
Only an hour and a half to NYC? Get off your duff & get to a good music repair shop! I drove my kids 5 hours each way to Chicago to pick out instruments - when I was working in Detroit it was an average of an hour each way for my daily commute.
If you go to the repair shop to drop off/pick up the instrument you can both demonstrate the problem and douible check when you pick it up.
I'm going to drive 2 1/2 hours each way to bring my clarinet to jbutler in the next few weeks.
I have no pity for you! 8^)
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Author: Bill
Date: 2001-05-26 20:15
Mark: Are you getting on me for bragging about where I live I am trying to paint an attractive picture to attract one repair tech to this area.
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Author: jbutler
Date: 2001-05-26 20:21
Bill,
I really meant to say Eb/Bb sorry for the confusion....ya' know the 1-4 Eb fingering.
John
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2001-05-26 21:03
Bill wrote:
>
> Mark: Are you getting on me for bragging about where I
> live
No matter how you paint it - it's <b>still</b> New Jersey 8^)
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Author: Fred
Date: 2001-05-27 02:45
I had that same problem when my lower section rings were adjusted too low. I was sealing the tone hole with my fingertips without putting adequate pressure on the surrounding rings to close the pad above the tone holes.
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2001-05-27 13:29
Just do the bend as jbutler suggests. The problem has been accurately diagnosed, and confirmed by the tenon twist bandaid correctiion. It seems silly to travel so far when it will take probably less than a minute to fix.
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Author: Dee
Date: 2001-05-27 14:37
Gordon (NZ) wrote:
>
> Just do the bend as jbutler suggests. The problem has
> been accurately diagnosed, and confirmed by the tenon twist
> bandaid correctiion. It seems silly to travel so far when it
> will take probably less than a minute to fix.
Or make it worse. Bending keys is something that I personally consider risky for an inexperienced person to do. I certainly wouldn't try it.
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Author: Bill
Date: 2001-05-27 17:54
I did a search, and found where someone suggested checking the screw adjustment on the upper joint ring key.
I tried it. Too tight, and the spring can't raise the key. Back off a little, and there is a big improvement. It's still not what I'd like, but it's a lot better. I'm amazed by the importance the adjustment of this little screw has on the operation of the key(s).
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Author: Fred
Date: 2001-05-28 02:08
Labor to turn the screw - $0.25
Knowing how far to turn the screw - $34.75
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Author: Mike Irish
Date: 2001-05-28 13:54
dont get in a hurry to do your own repair/adjustments on a new horn under warrentee..... you might just void it.......
I am self employed and do Plumbing, Heating , and Air cond..... when I get a call on a new unit from one of my customers, ( under warrentee ) I recommend they get the company that installed it to repair it... ( unless it is the brand I deal with ) because I am not a certified tech with that paticular company and if there is a problem that is covered under warrentee, I could void it.....
if it is a new horn, or has a warentee given by the seller, that is where I believe it should be taken....
Mike
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2001-05-28 14:31
It must be the easiest part on the clarinet to adjust/bend. It is the one that is by far the most often bent unintentionally by careless assembly. A LeBlanc is very well made and it would be difficult to break this key if you tried - as difficult as breaking a thin cupronickel coin. If you bend it too far, it is so easy to bend it back again. Just how easy is it to do damage in this particular area if one has a modicum of mechanical nouse! Players change the odd pad and I think this is a far more risky manouvre.
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Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2001-05-29 13:11
Ok Bill, I just read this. It's the bridge. You have to line it up exactly like it's supposed to be and go from there. Take the advice of the experts about the bridge adjustment. The keys don't line up like your R-13--you have the LL with the inline trill keys and it feels different in the hand than the R-13. You'll have to get used to the difference between the two instruments and not try to get the LL to line up like the R-13. When the bridge is adjusted (a very easy thing) you won't have another problem unless you try to make it line up like the R-13.
Don't sand anything or make any kind of other "home repairs" until you try the bridge thing. And, when you assemble the instrument, make sure the bridge alignment is straight. There shouldn't be a problem after that.
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