 The Clarinet BBoard
|
Author: kdk
Date: 2016-11-03 00:19
I don't actually understand what the context is for these squeaks. Are you just playing G and then D and A - D, or are there notes in between?
In any case, if the squeaks stop after playing for a little while, maybe you just aren't wetting your reeds for a long enough time.
Karl
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: ClarinetRobt
Date: 2016-11-03 00:45
I had this same phobia all through HS when I played on Vic Oliveri. Switched to Vandoren in college...probably because of peer pressure...which immediately cured all chirping drama. Years later, chit chatting with symphony clarinet players, I told them this story. They immediately commented, "that's why we quit using Oliveri, the vamps are too short for our mouthpiece".
Perhaps you're experiencing the same problem?
~Robt L Schwebel
Mthpc: Behn Vintage
Lig: Ishimori, Behn Delrin
Reed: Legere French Cut 3.75/4, Behn Brio 4
Horns: Uebel Superior (Bb,A), Ridenour Lyrique, Buffet R13 (Eb)
Post Edited (2016-11-03 01:42)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Bob Bernardo
Date: 2016-11-03 06:43
Can you post a picture of your mouthpiece? The table side showing the rails and the tip?
What reeds are you using? Is the chirp coming from the right side or the left side of the mouthpiece?
You could also have a pad or pads leaking, but unlikely since you added the throat A note. If you hadn't added that note I'd say to have your horn looked at.
Another idea is to try another horn, a friends horn with your mouthpiece. If the squeak goes away, it could surely be a pad issue. If it doesn't you are looking at a a reeds situation, or maybe a damaged mouthpiece.
Designer of - Vintage 1940 Cicero Mouthpieces and the La Vecchia mouthpieces
Yamaha Artist 2015
Post Edited (2016-11-03 06:47)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: faltpihl ★2017
Date: 2016-11-04 01:51
Great advise. I'm using viotto N1 and the reeds are both Vandoren Wm Traditional which Ive always used, and gonzales german that Im trying.
I will try my other copy of the mouthpiece first!
Regards
Peter
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Wes
Date: 2016-11-04 03:23
If the Ab throat key is a bit too high, one can accidently touch it and cause a squeak.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: faltpihl ★2017
Date: 2016-11-04 11:05
I'm playing a piece of music that has staccato low G to high D as I described above, which is almost always a problem with some reed.
Just to clarify.
I then found that the A to D also doing this so I suspect low note to high D or rather high D being the problem. But only tongued.
Regards
Peter
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Bob Bernardo
Date: 2016-11-04 11:58
I wish you lived closer. Again. can you post a pic of your mouthpiece. Here's the issue. if you have just a slight ding the mouthpiece won't work. When I work on facings. mainly towards the tip area, if the mouthpiece is off more than 3 times thinner than a human hair is can sometimes cause a chirp. I'm looking for a nick or a bad scratch. Is there one on the rails, the table, or the tip?
For about $15 US dollors you can ship the mouthpiece to me and I'll adjsut it and ship if back. Needless to say I will surely check for chirps.
Designer of - Vintage 1940 Cicero Mouthpieces and the La Vecchia mouthpieces
Yamaha Artist 2015
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: faltpihl ★2017
Date: 2016-11-04 16:32
I will get an image tonight of the mouthpiece. I did alot of the testing now and it is not a leak in the clarinet. This chirp can be produced by lifting the throat A lever while playing or by not closing the right hand fingers though
I tried both my N1 and my vendoren b40d and both chirp on certain reeds, especially when they are dry / I haven't placed them awhile.
Some reeds never have this behavior, so maybe it is my habit of wetting the reed? When I try new reeds I sometimes just have them in my mouth 5-10 seconds.
Can I check reeds some how? Is it the flatness of the reed, something with the tip of the reed?
Thanks alot for the help
Regards
Peter
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2016-11-04 18:24
Your best hope is that the throat Ab key adjusting screw is screwed down too far. Back it off 1/4 turn so that there's a tiny gap between the screw tip and the A key.
A reed will chirps if the reed tip is not covering the entire lay and tip of the mouthpiece, particularly at the corners. Try moving the reed 1/2 mm. higher on the mouthpiece to make sure it's covering the corners.
Next, hold the reed up to a strong light to make sure it's not too thin (i.e., nearly transparent) at the corners.
Next, reshape the reed tip curve to match the mouthpiece tip exactly. (I use a diamond nail file.)
It's very easy to ding a mouthpiece corner. Examine your mouthpiece under sunlight or a bright lamp, turning it at various angles to see whether it changes angles at the corners.
Ken Shaw
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: TomS
Date: 2016-11-05 17:18
For some reason, and only using close facing Vandoren MPs and only with real cane reeds, I had the chirp or whistle problem. I've had that experience on several Vandorens. The problem goes away with synthetic reeds.
It might be the way the facing is cut on the Vandorens ... David Hite referred to it as an "arched facing". From where the tip rail meets the side rails, and to the very tip, the opening is increasing more radically that if the MP was hand faced or faced with other methods. It's because of the little "whirly jig" facing machine that Vandoren uses ... says David. The advantage of this type of facing is that you can get a more powerful sound ...
I could be "full of blueberry muffins" about this. I'll bet someone will chime in that can confirm, enhance or refute my comments.
Also, try the "suck test" on you MP. That is, place a good wet reed on your MP, block the exit bore with your finger (or use a stopper), put the MP in your mouth, suck, and remove the MP. The reed should stick to the facing (as long as your finger or stopper is in place). It should seal for a few seconds and then "pop" back.
Somebody just shoot me, I've been playing a Vandoren 5RV (plain) with a Legere Signature the last two days ... !
Tom
Post Edited (2016-11-05 17:20)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Bob Bernardo
Date: 2016-11-05 19:17
Tom, I tend to agree with you. I wish we had the horn in front of us. The idea of G# key screw is excellent too, but who knows where his hand position is. Does Peter have short fingers? Too many unknowns. We know he changed reed brands recently. That's about it.
Designer of - Vintage 1940 Cicero Mouthpieces and the La Vecchia mouthpieces
Yamaha Artist 2015
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: faltpihl ★2017
Date: 2016-11-05 21:43
First, I appreciate everyones effort.
Let me sum up what I've done so far.
1. I've tried both my N1 mouthpieces AND a vandoren B40D with the most problematic reeds, and I get the same problem with all mouthpieces. The second N1 is brand new, I've played it a few minutes at most.
2. I've tried my A clarinet with the same mouthpiece + reed combo, and it presents the same issues.
3. I've had a good friend who's great with clarinet maintainance help me check for leaks in the A/G# as well as in the lower right hand pad whatever that's called.
We did some minor adjustments but didn't find any leak or any problem there.
4. I've tightened the springs on the A/G# which I had previously loosened (getting hand pain after long periods of playing), which MAY have improved the issue, but certainly not removed it.
5. Regarding reed brands: I've used the white master trad. and steuer S800 as my main setup for as long as I've had this mouthpiece. The gonzales are indeed new, but new vandoren reeds were also giving me this problem.
6. This problem ONLY occurs if I do short staccato burst from low G to high D back and forth. If I really try I may sometimes be able to get the chirp on the high D if I try hard. If I try really hard I can maybe get a slight chirp on low A to high E, but its' mainly all fingers down that's been problematic for me.
7. Again, some reeds are completely fine. And even the bad reeds, after trying this for long enough, it gets harder and harder for me to generate the problem.
8. I tried to wet the reeds for a long time in a cup, it didn't seem to solve the problem.
9. Regarding fingers: This is an interesting topic. I have tried together with my friend to really closely ensure that my fingers are covering everything when testing, so I believe it is not a contributer to this problem. But I did notice that my rings are a bit too high and I will attempt to lower them in the future.
10. Reed position: I've tried moving the reed a bit over the mouthpiece edge, and yes if I do this too far up, the problem seems to go away. But I cannot play the reeds that high comfortably.
11. Suction test. I will try this. I've never tried it before, and some people on this board have expressed that they have not found this test to fit them. But I am very interested in testing it nontheless
12. Reed adjustments: I am interested in trying to work on the most problematic reeds and see if I can cure them from this problem. Where should I start would you say? Should I clip the tip? Try balancing it better? I have reeds that feel too stiff with this problem also, so I'd normally work on them to get them closer to "the zone" of comfort resistance wise.
13. G# screw adjustment: I tried this too, together with stiffening the spring as well to ensure seal. Both a light test and a "blow in the clarinet test" seemed to show that there are no leaks there.
Wow. this was a long reply, hope I didn't scare you guys off
Here are images of my main N1 mouthpiece for anyone interested:
https://goo.gl/photos/Q6VtAEqmJBuasFTP7
And if you're wondering what I'm playing, its' this:
http://www.clarinst.net/Pdf%20files/Quartets/[Clarinet_Institute]%20Bartok%20Romanian%20Dances%20Cl4.pdf
And my issues arise in the 5th movement on clarinet 1 part.
Regards
Peter
Post Edited (2016-11-05 21:51)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: kdk
Date: 2016-11-05 23:19
faltpihl wrote:
> But I did notice that my
> rings are a bit too high and I will attempt to lower them in
> the future.
>
This has become a guessing game, of course, in which a lot of people who can't see or hear the problem are trying to solve it with no information other than what you are able to provide verbally.
This comment about the rings does suggest that maybe they *are* too high and that as a result the pad above RH index finger or one of your fingers isn't closing reliably. The cause is often a badly adjusted bridge key that limits the travel of the RH rings and stops them short of completely covering that top pad. Can you eliminate the squeaks by applying really heavy pressure on the rings? A leak here, significantly when you're troubleshooting a problem like this, won't show up when you check for suction if the instrument isn't fully assembled so the bridge keys are engaged. Have you checked the pad coverage with a feeler?
If the problem is only slight and any leak here is small, it may only cause a problem with reeds that already have a minor flaw - a hard or soft spot in the tip, an imbalance right-to-left, a slight warp in the flat side - that makes them tend to be unstable.
So you might get the ring heights (or the bridge keys) adjusted before you do much more about other approaches. It sounds as if the squeaks follow the reed and not the rest of the equipment, but your comment caught my attention.
Has anyone else tried the same setup (including reeds) and had the same squeaking problem you're having? I've reread the previous posts quickly and don't see anything about whether the squeaks follow the equipment to other players or not, but if I've missed it, I apologize.
Karl
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: faltpihl ★2017
Date: 2016-11-05 23:54
Hi,
I haven't had another player test the setup, that's a good suggestion!
I have looked at the rings and the pad, and the pad is closing good. We played with adjusting the height of of the pad to make it seal earlier, but then the rings did not close enough.
I also tried pushing the pad real hard while playing, and it didn't seem to make a difference.
What I meant with my comment above about the rings was just that it would probably feel easier in general if there wasn't such a gap between the rings and the toneholes when they're closed, so in the future I might attempt to adjust it.
But I am also looking at getting a new clarinet in the near future, so I don't want to go through too much trouble adjusting this one to death
Regards
Peter
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2016-11-06 06:37
Peter -
The solution is in your items 5 and 10.
Vandoren White Masters are too narrow for French-style mouthpieces. With a more severe tip curve, they tend to leak at the corners. Try Black Masters or Traditionals.
If moving the reed up cures the problem, it means that you're getting the tip corners completely closed. Clip the tip the minimum possible amount with a Courdier trimmer or another with a French-shaped curve and scrape the reed down to the strength you like. Or buy reeds 1/2 strength softer than you like and clip the tip to the right shape.
Ken Shaw
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: faltpihl ★2017
Date: 2016-11-06 11:19
I am using the white master traditional, sorry if I missed that somewhere in the thread. I will try the clipping!
Regards
Peter
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Jeroen
Date: 2016-11-09 17:59
The White Masters should be a good match on the Viotto N1 (which has a German facing).
For the B40D you should indeed use French cut reeds (however, soft Black Masters can work pretty good).
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: faltpihl ★2017
Date: 2016-11-10 14:39
Yes, I am not usually using the white masters on the B40D, but for testing the reed I did a quick test on the B40D.
Normally I use rue56 on the B40D (which I haven't really used since I got my N1 )
I am awaiting a new clarinet to arrive soon, so I will try to see if this problem has changed then.
(Going to try my dream Uebel Superior and hopefully fall in love with it)
Regards
Peter
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Grabnerwg
Date: 2016-11-13 21:18
Have you tried checking your embouchure?
Squeaks like this are most commonly caused by moving or shifting the jaw between notes. Put a mirror on your music stand, so that you can focus on your lower face. Observe your embouchure as you make the interval change.
If there is motion, you are very likely to get the kind of squeaks you are describing.
Walter Grabner
www.clarinetxpress.com
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: faltpihl ★2017
Date: 2016-11-13 22:33
I have tried clipping some of my most problematic reeds, and that did fix them. I have issues working them down from that very clipped state though, I don't feel I've been able to make them play great yet.
Thanks for the embouchure tip, I will look into it tomorrow!
Regards
Peter
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
The Clarinet Pages
|
 |
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
![[G3]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/g3.gif)
to ![[D5]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/d5.gif)
where with certain reeds, at least when I just put it on the mouthpiece, give a horrible squeek when going to the D. ![[A4]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/a4.gif)
to 