 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Richie
Date: 2016-10-05 04:13
I've gone to two repair shops and while they have improved it, it isn't completely gone. Basically, there is this small, very quiet buzzing sound when I play my e2, f2, g2 and a2. It is very quiet and can only barely be heard when someone is sitting next to you and listening for it particularly. The first shop didn't do a single thing, but the second shop took everything apart, looked at screws and corked the upper joint. The corking did help, however sometimes the sound comes back when the reed is really soft. It's something that will probably be completely fine if it isn't fixed, but I would obviously prefer that is. I know this forum has a lot of experience (probably more than me), so any ideas?
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2016-10-05 05:22
Check the gaps between the side and trill keys y running a piece of paper between them along their lengths. If you feel the paper catching anywhere, then the keys are touching and that will cause a sympathetic buzz or ringing sound on certain notes.
Also do a suction test with your mouthpiece and reed to be sure there aren't any leaks between the reed and the side rails - especially near the base of the window and the thicker part of the reed at the base of the scrape.
Wet your reed and fit it as normal, then seal off the tenon with a wet finger and suck the air out from the mouthpiece to create a vacuum inside it which will hold the reed against the facing. Then when you've sucked the air out, see how long it can hold a vacuum for (the longer, the better) - f it's barely a second or under three seconds, there's a leak somewhere which could mean a warped or chipped reed or a worn or damaged mouthpiece facing.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2016-10-05 11:24
>> there is this small, very quiet buzzing sound when I play my e2, f2, g2 and a2. <<
Notes are usually referred to based on the C4 at the top of any forum page, but I assume you mean the notes near the throat notes.
1) Is it intermittent or is the buzz always there?
2) Does it really only happen with those notes i.e. doesn't happen with F#4, G#4 and Bb4 (what you would call F@2, etc.)?
3) You can try removing all "irrelevant" keys to check if it happens with the minimum amount of keys (and upper joint only). You might be able to narrow it down this way. Unless it's an intermittent problem and doesn't happen when you check...
4) Replacing the corks might have been a good idea regardless but were they trying to find and solve the problem or on "autopilot mode"?
5) Worth trying different mouthpieces and reeds just in case. Did you find you don't have the problem with a different clarinet? What model exactly is this clarinet?
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Author: Steven Ocone
Date: 2016-10-05 17:21
If you have skin pads, there may be some vibration of the skin. There are usually two layers that can vibrate against each other. The 3-ring key is especially prone to buzzing. Sometimes I can eliminate the buzzing by ironing the pad.
When I have this issue I have someone play the clarinet and I use a homemade stethoscope to locate the buzz. I will some times progressively remove keys to see if the buzz disappears. Once I had all of the keys off and discovered that the buzz was still present and realized that I heard it coming from both the mouthpiece and the bell. It was not a reed or mouthpiece problem (the problem had been present for many years) but it was from the bore itself!
Another source of buzzing can happen between 2 close upper joint trill keys. I hate buzzes. Good luck.
Steve Ocone
Post Edited (2016-10-06 01:51)
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Author: Johan H Nilsson
Date: 2016-10-05 17:34
"buzzing sound when I play my e2, f2, g2 and a2"
Those tones don't exist on the clarinet. If 2 is for the 2nd register, the tones are E5 to A5.
Click on the "Smileys/Notes". Removes all guess work.
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Author: Richie
Date: 2016-10-06 01:58
I have tried different reeds and mouthpieces, and like I said, it's audible on the softer reeds. I have tried playing upper joint only and, it's still there. I did get around to checking the trill keys, I didn't go too in depth but I doubt it is those. Oh and yes I do mean the throat tones, small error on my part.
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2016-10-06 08:10
I'm going to assume it happens only with the notes you mentioned and not any of the in between notes, plus that it's not an intermittent issue, since you didn't say it was. What I'd do next is what I suggested in the previous post.
First choose a reed that makes it worse so you can more easily hear a difference. Remove all keys from the upper joint, seal all tone holes and check the buzz in the notes one by one. First by unsealing a tone hole (or a few if necessary), then by putting the key back on. The tone and intonation might distort but you only want to find where the buzzing is coming from anyway.
For example start by checking only the A note. First unseal its tone hole. Then install only the register key and recheck. Then install just the A key and check, then unseal G#, then install the G# key, etc.
If you can't do this yourself (and if you are not sure then I'd recommend probably not doing it yourself), then you can ask a repairer if they can, maybe show them this thread.
Another idea... does it happen anywhere or only in a specific place? Sometimes something in the room vibrates.
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2016-10-06 18:18
If it buzzes on the E, then the problem is just below there, in the pad connected to the left middle finger ring. Take off that key and thoroughly clean the finger and pad holes. A cork pad shouldn't buzz, but you could bevel the cork to make the air flow smoother. Also look down the bore to make sure no splinters or crud is hanging down.
Ken Shaw
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Author: Lelia Loban ★2017
Date: 2016-10-06 19:14
clarnibass wrote,
>Another idea... does it happen anywhere or only in a specific place? Sometimes something in the room vibrates.>
Many other good suggestions on this thread -- but this one interests me because I can get all sorts of odd acoustical effects in the attic office where I practice. With nearly any wind instrument, if I play loudly while standing next to my bodhrán drum that hangs on the wall, I can make the drum produce a low buzz. The first time that happened, soon after I bought the drum, I mistook the source of the noise and thought my clarinet was buzzing. I walked over to my desk on the other side of the room, sat down and started to go through the usual experiments to find the cause of a new buzz -- but there wasn't any buzz. Hmm. I walked back over to my practice stand next to that wall, and -- aha! Re-locating my music stand to just a foot away from what used to be my normal position solved the problem.
I can get a weirder effect with my two lowest-pitched instruments, my contra-alto clarinet and my bass saxophone. With the lowest few notes of either of those, I can make small objects nearby "walk the plank" -- quiver (often with an audible hum or rattle), move along the top of my piano (it sits next to the music stand I use for practicing wind instruments) and fall on the floor.
Lelia
http://www.scoreexchange.com/profiles/Lelia_Loban
To hear the audio, click on the "Scorch Plug-In" box above the score.
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Author: Richie
Date: 2016-10-08 04:41
So an update: it seems that the key in between the d and c tone holes (I really wish I knew what it was called) Well the skin pad on the underside (not the pad, but the skin that keeps the mechanism from touching the wood) seems to be loose, could this be causing the noise?
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2016-10-08 05:51
The key between the D (LH3) and C (RH ring key vent) toneholes is the C#/G# key - you're best having a cork pad installed there as it's a low lying pad which is prone to water damage.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2016-10-09 08:07
It sounds like you are talking about the cork/felt bumper of either the Eb/Bb banana key or the C#/G# key. Very unlikely but anything is possible. Very easy to check, just use your right hand to prevent it from vibrating. Or put a bit of tape to hold it. If you meant the skin of the pad (but I don't think you did?), since neither of those keys are relevant to the problematic notes, you can even remove the one you suspect and check.
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Author: Richie
Date: 2016-10-09 22:27
Yes I mean the pad under the Eb/Bb banana key, I'll try some tape.
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Author: Richie
Date: 2016-10-10 02:39
The clarinet has been sitting for over a year, could it be the bore or the wood itself?
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Author: SarahC
Date: 2016-10-11 15:22
richie, most likely part of the mechanism as i have never known the wood to "buzz". (the exception to this is if something else vibrates at the same resonance frequency as the wood.. but that would only apply to one very specific pitch, and your RH thumb should stop the possibility of that occuring). I hate it when my clarinet gets those sort of issues! my main Bb has a buzz, but only during the first three minutes of playing! still haven't figured that out.
As for labelling E with a number i.e. E2 vs E5 there are numerous ways of numbering depending on where you studied. don't be concerned at all. AMEB uses a system very different to the one we used at university and so on.
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Author: Richie
Date: 2016-10-12 04:22
I feel like the issue is that there is metal on metal somewhere, and that is causing it. I have already checked the trill keys, but what another area that this might be happening? (something that can be missed when when the keys are taken off and put back on)
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2016-10-12 04:45
Play one of the affected notes - E would be best because you can control the instrument more easily with one hand than you can with F through A - and with your right hand touch each key on the upper half of the instrument. If you're getting metal on metal vibration, it will stop when you touch the vibrating key.
A couple of places where keys can touch lightly enough to vibrate against each other but without causing leaks or binding might be the rh bottom two side keys (Eb/Bb and the F# alternate above it) or somewhere along the the long keys connecting the top two rh side keys to their pad cups.
If the noise doesn't stop when you touch those side keys lightly with your right hand, you'll have to go around and try all the other keys, still while playing E. I suppose it could, though I've never seen it happen, be a badly fitted key sleeve vibrating against the rod that goes through it or against the posts that support it. Anything like that should stop making noise when you touch it. Probably none of it would be obvious to a repairer who isn't looking for it when the keys are off the clarinet. Although a good repair tech, especially the second one who was on the alert for the noise, should be thinking of something like that if nothing else solves the problem.
Karl
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