 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: joevacc
Date: 2001-05-24 03:58
Can anyone describe the difference between the sound of a basset horn and the alto clarinet?
I know that the bore of the basset horn is smaller than the alto and there three more notes with the banana and basset keys, but how different is the sound of the two?
What can be said as to playing Mozart's Concerto on an alto clarinet? (would it sound more correct than an A pitched clarinet)
Is there a publication of the Concerto that is considered most correct to the original score? (I'm sure there is great debate on this subject but which are taken more seriously?)
Is there a definitive historical instrument (basset) recording of the Concerto?
Thanks in advance,
-=[Joe Vacc]=-
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2001-05-24 04:14
joevacc wrote:
>
>
> What can be said as to playing Mozart's Concerto on an alto
> clarinet? (would it sound more correct than an A pitched
> clarinet)
A basset clarinet in A is most probably the correct instrument, as revealed in research by Paula Poulin.
> Is there a publication of the Concerto that is considered most
> correct to the original score? (I'm sure there is great debate
> on this subject but which are taken more seriously?)
Check http://www.clarinet.org in the research section for information.
> Is there a definitive historical instrument (basset) recording
> of the Concerto?
Basset clarinet? There are no historical basset clarinets extant; until relatively recently there was no proof such an instrument even existed.
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Author: joevacc
Date: 2001-05-24 04:22
Mark wrote:
>
>Basset clarinet? There are no historical basset clarinets extant; until relatively recently there was no proof such an instrument even existed.
Understood-
Are there recordings on modern made historical instruments?
Thanks,
jv
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2001-05-24 05:02
The problem is there's no "historical basset clarinets" to copy. There are recordings on basset clarinets; referring to that article on the ICA web site will lead you to a few. I have a recoding made by David Shifrin. There's also recordings by Sabine Meyer, Thea King, Antony Pay, Colin Lawson, Joaquin Valepenas, Kjell Fagéus, Lawrence McDonald, Hans Rudolf Stalder, Eric Hoeprich, ...
The next problem is that there is no manuscript or even early score of the concerto - the basset clarinet (and indeed the clarinet in A) music is a reconstruction - and educated guess - at what it may have been. So - it's well nigh impossible to say which if any of these recordings - or indeed any recording - could be called "definitive". There's just too much guesswork involved.
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Author: joevacc
Date: 2001-05-24 05:22
Mark,
Do you know if the Paula Poulin research is published?
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2001-05-24 05:30
I made a mistake. Pamela Poulin poulin@peabody.jhu.edu, and yes, it's published. AMIS (American Musical Instrument Society), Vol. 22: Pamela L. Poulin - "Anton Stadler's Basset Clarinet: Recent Discoveries in Riga"
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Author: Alphie
Date: 2001-05-24 09:57
Eric Hoeprich recently made a new recording on a reconstruction of a Basset clarinet based on the information from Pamela Poulins reserch. The label is Glossa and will soon be out.
Alphie
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Author: Lennart
Date: 2001-05-24 13:13
Note that the new basset horns by LeBlanc and Buffet have the same bore (.709") as the alto clarinet and hence the same mouthpiece. Only Selmer still goes on with the narrow bore (.621") and the Bb clarinet mouthpiece.
I think that the player will notice a difference between a basset horn and an alto clarinet because the tone of the alto clarinet is not very strong in the middle register, but the sound is almost the same.
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Author: graham
Date: 2001-05-24 13:54
I recently had my Buffet Basset Horn measured at the bottom of the upper joint and it came out at 17.3 mm, which I think is .681 inch. An Oebel Basset Horn to hand at the time was said to be 17 mm which is .669. The Oebel would play with a heavily modified B flat mouthpiece, but the Buffet was too far out to make that a serious proposition, so the alto mouthpiece has to be the one.
Being pitched a tone higher might have an effect on sound, like the difference between a b flat and a c clarinet. I haven't got an alto to see how the tone holes are drilled, but would expect that factor to have an effect on sound. The Basset Horn has many notes which are vented with double rather than single tone holes, in situations where, for example, my bass clarinet is vented only with one tone hole.
My difficulty is that I puffed on an alto only once, more than twenty years ago, and didn't like it much. I love my basset horn, but i could not honestly say if the differrence is me rather than the instrument.
In the UK a Buffet goes for about £3000, whilst a Selmer might be as much as £5000, so you pay extra for authenticity, which is probably fair enough.
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Author: Alphie
Date: 2001-05-24 14:32
Since the original concept of what a basset horn is, or shuld sound like is lost, I would refer to most modern BH's being alto clarinets in F with extention to low C.
The classical BH of the 18th century had a too long tube to a too narrow bore with toneholes placed too far up on the tube. This created the typical "muffled" [mezzo forte maximum] sound that gave it it's special caracter.
In late 19th century, when they started to produce modern BH's the product became more acustically "correct", at least as far as size and placing of the tone holes goes, with the result that the sound became too loud and too "edgy".
If one would do the same reconstruction to the bassoon, it would sound like a double reed bass clarinet. The only reason why a bassoon sounds like it does is that it's constructed in a similar way as the classical Basset horn.
For some samples how the original Basset Horn sound like, go to www.stadlertrio.com
Alphie
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Author: Gary Van Cott
Date: 2001-05-25 23:26
>I think that the player will notice a difference between a basset horn and an alto clarinet because the tone of the alto clarinet is
not very strong in the middle register, but the sound is almost the same.<
This statement is not true in regards to the current model Buffet alto clarinet. The clarion register is quite good with the exception of the long B.
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2001-05-26 17:43
A fine discussion above, I have hesitated posting as my B H experience is quite limited, but have modest familiarity with the alto cl. It seems to me likely that the "peculiar" tonal characters and "register" differences between the two, and their differing, modern renditions by Buffet, LeBlanc and Selmer [others?] , is due to basic bore diameters and "modifications" , lengths of tube and mouthpiece choice [and mp bore matching to neck and perhaps to upper joint] . I found in what little I played a [1980's?] Selmer BH, a lot of similarity to my Sel A C, but this A C is quite different [as I recall] from my earlier LeB A C, which I attribute to bore differences. What B H recordings I have heard show quite a variation in differences from the "standard" Bb cl tonality, and I would guess most[?] of us would prefer a wide difference. Interesting, Don
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