 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Keil
Date: 2001-05-23 18:52
My private teacher suggested that i get my upper joint pads on my G#/C# key and my side Bb/Eb key repaded but with cork. I read somewhere that the cork has some acoustic value... i'm wondering what you clarinetist think
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Author: joevacc
Date: 2001-05-23 20:52
To add to the question, what are the advantages/disadvantages of a full upper joint cork job as opposed to the C#/G# - Eb/Bb keys alone?
Best,
-=[Joe Vacc]=-
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Author: Gavin
Date: 2001-05-24 06:34
I think the answer is that the two pads mentioned tend to get rather wet at times and a cork pad will stand the test of time, and will not expand with moisture. I had a G#/C# pad swell up on me during a pit performance, and it started to swim about! I haven't had any problems since replacing it with cork. You still do get water problems, just you can rely on the pad not to give up the ghost at an inopportune moment.
Why not put cork on the full upper joint? Because it is noisy, that's why. Unless you like the sound of plonking keys between your lovely slurred note phrases.
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Author: Wes
Date: 2001-05-24 07:57
Paul Laubin has written about his preference for skin pads over cork. As the leading American maker of first class oboes, he has significant experience with pads of all kinds. I have found that cork pads on an oboe develop tiny leaks which can't easily be seen except under a magnifying glass. Sometimes these are tiny cracks in the cork and sometimes they are indentations due to a dirt or sand speck getting on the pad and poking a hole in it on the seat. The best way to detect these leaks is by submerging the joint in lukewarm water while blowing on a hose to the top of the joint with fingers in place and a plug in the bottom. Bubbles show where the leak exists.
Cork pads are harder to seat and must be seated very accurately. Skin pads seem to have more capacity for adapting to the tonehole edge, although they both will adapt some. There are, of course, various types of skin pads with different hardnesses under the skin.
Laubin puts more skin pads on his oboes than other makers.
On the upper joint of a clarinet, cork pads may work better than on oboes because the spring tension is heavier.
Good Luck!
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Author: Terry Horlick
Date: 2001-05-24 08:15
The rebuilder I use just put cork on the upper joint of the two Bb horns I had her do. They play great and sound the same. There is absolutely no closing noise. The original pads on my Evette Master only lasted about 30 years... so I sure hope the cork will go longer... so my daughter won't have to mess with them.
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2001-05-24 11:26
In the past I have found synthetic pads very poor indeed, but I think that the Gortex ones may indeed be the best yet. And I look forward to Music Centre using their superb "microfibre" on clarinet pads. They currently list these pads only for saxophone.
I agree with Gavin & Wes.
30 years! That is better than almost every other product we purchase. Almost all thirty year old cork (tenons, but also keys) I have seen has lost its structure and gone crumbly, perhaps in part from gradual enzyme (or bacterial or fungal) attack from traces of saliva. "The Doctor" may have more scientific knowledge on this.
Cork pads may be more reliable, but I have certainly occasionally seen saturated swollen cork as well, resembling the end of the wine cork. They are not the total answer. However when a really good overhaul including cork pads is done on an instrument that has not had such good servicing previously the player is highly likely to start praising cork pads, even if other factors may be the primary reason for the improved reliability. Top quality bladder pads, corrrectly installed, last very well indeed. Water has to get inside a pad before the pad swells. In my experience this most often happens when the membrane is porous, i.e. low quality pads.
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2001-05-24 14:52
I have about 20 years on the cork pads on my LeBlanc L7 UJ, still very tight and dont notice any noises. I have had two older oboes cork-padded and, tho having given up that "fight", believe they are carrying-on OK. YES, it must be done well, more difficult than skin-felts, but long-lived. Just my thots. Don
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Author: mw
Date: 2001-05-24 18:20
John Butler just finished an Buffet R-13 overhaul for me of a 423,xxx horn. I like to "meet" with John before we start to plan. We decided to cork the U/J as always. To my ear, these keys do _not_ make noise either during closure or from vented air moving past the pads.
Previously, I have had the Brannens do three (3) horns ... again with corked upper joint. Nary a problem ... other (informed) individuals love the sound, too. Cork is very long lasting. However, more difficult to seat & float ... but tough stuff once its on the horn. Cork Pads can be purchased from suppliers like Ferree's or hand-made using "cookee cutters" from cork stock.
My daughter Leslie has a 119,xxx R-13 that John Butler did in cork on the U/J about 2 years ago (or so). Leslie practices 2-3 hours a day (every day!) & the cork pads look new (and I swab way better than her --- maybe because I PAY!)
John usually uses a fine quality 2X fishskin pad on the L/J. Lucien, Prestini, Kraus or whatever you want. Recently we decided to try Gortex on the bottom and after an out-of-stock wait in obtaining the pads ... I can report ... it was worth the wait!
The Gortex Pads look wonderful ... but play & sound FAR BETTER!
(( This was not intended as a Commercial Endorsement of/for John Butler ... but I do like to brag on him because he is one of Sneezy's very own! ))
Best,
mw
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Author: Anji
Date: 2001-05-24 20:16
30 years from a pad set!?
I wonder what TH tires must look like?
If the pads are changed every third year, how much of a difference in play and feel is there?
The only horns I have played have basic Prestinin pads.
I like the look and feel of kid leather on the lower joint, but does this have a real effect on the overall sound? (Presuming the seal covers quietly.)
anji
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Author: Elise
Date: 2001-05-24 20:17
When I bought my R13 my teacher had insisted that I have the C#, Bb side and sliver keys on the UJ padded right off the bat. My dealer was extremely hesitant to do it and made me wait for months before he would--I still don't know why. One thought might include the fact that he had one entirely corked (I had a choice of several) and I didn't pick it. Hrmm.
My horn (I) accumulate tons of water after playing for just a couple of hours. I don't even remember too well the original pads or the water situation. But even now, I still get lots of moisture quickly in the keys that have been corked--mostly no others. It's like a pond in there, despite the cork pads. Have they helped? Well, since I don't remember the original ones well I can't really compare. I'm only assuming that they do and that the situation would be worse without them. They haven't, though, given me any other problems such as the excess noise when they're replaced over the holes.
You know where I really find that I need cork pads more than the other spots? Most definitely the A key at the top and the adjacent Ab key. They collect a great deal of moisture. Anyone else experience this?
elise
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Author: mw
Date: 2001-05-24 21:54
Remember, too, that the amount of water that collects is dependent upon _YOU_, e.g. the actual quantity is not an attribute of your clarinet, but of you.
I also suffer from this problem, but notice others who have _LESS_ of a problem.
Dry Mouth can have it's benefits (... just kidding) !
Best,
mw
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Author: bob gardner
Date: 2001-05-25 00:32
I'm a wet mouth and I think it may be better then being a dry mouth. A friend of mine has to keep life saver in her mouth all the time.
I just want to keep my teeth in.
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2001-05-25 05:02
mw: Sure, some players (yuck) blow saliva and mouth gunge down their clarinet but the moisture problem is mainly condensation. Surely all out-going breath is close to 100% humid, and the colder the instrument, the more condensation occurs. How much water comes out tone holes and contacts pads does depend a bit on the smoothness of the bore (rough probably better because it stops drops forming and running onto pads, water resistance of the tone hole itself, surfactants or oils present, etc.
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