 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: BGBG
Date: 2016-09-20 02:16
Can a single eighth note start a measure or must it be tied to another eighth or some other note?
Like is an eighth note, a half note, another half note possible? If so I am having trouble counting it out.
In 4/4 rhythm shouldn't the first note get the emphasized beat?
I re-thought this and I believe that it should be a quarter note, a dotted quarter note, and another dotted quarter note.
Post Edited (2016-09-20 07:09)
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2016-09-20 02:37
It certainly can. What exactly follows after that eighth is subject to taste and "school" - some people avoid syncopated notes (8 4 4 4 8) like the plague and would rather tie two eighths together (8 8~8 8~8 8~8 8), while others happily write quarters (or halves, or whatever).
--
Ben
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2016-09-20 04:22
The answer depends a little on what you're doing. If you're writing an original tune, the only problem with what you've described is that it has more than 4 quarter notes in it - it has 4-1/2 (1/8 + 2x1/2 = 9/8, not 8/8 or 4/4).
If you're listening to something and trying to write it down, it may be that the eighth-note is a "pick-up" (anacrusis) note, a note that leads toward the beginning of a measure from the end of the previous one.
If what you really want is an eighth-note on beat one, you need to make one of the two long notes an eighth shorter. There are several ways. For example a dotted quarter following the eighth would then allow a half note for the 3rd and 4th beats, to total 4 quarters.
The first note in the measure (in any meter) would usually be the strongest beat, although music breaks this "rule" fairly often. So, if you want the first long note (your first half note) to be the strong note and the eighth note to be a weaker one pulling toward the half note, the eighth probably should be a pick-up and then the two half notes would fill an entire measure.
Karl
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Author: BGBG
Date: 2016-09-20 06:36
Thanks. I am not really very schooled in this if at all. Had a feeling I was putting too many notes in there. The counting of the notes is sometimes confusing. I like to play clarinet by music and not by ear so I try to write the way I think or would like it to sound and I have no formal training in how to do this. Maybe things seem hard because I am putting too many notes in them.
I guess I was trying to say 1,2,3,4-and which may be really 3 quarter notes and 2 eighth notes. Need more study and practice.
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2016-09-20 06:49
BGBG wrote:
> I guess I was trying to say 1,2,3,4-and which may be really 3
> quarter notes and 2 eighth notes.
Yes.
Karl
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Author: BGBG
Date: 2016-09-20 07:15
I edited my original post. I now think it should be a quarter note, a dotted quarter note, and another dotted quarter note. I think I was doing something like counting in words one, two, three, four-and , and thinking the 4 is a quarter note with a whole beat instead of an eighth not with a half beat. Maybe I should say one, two, three, and-four or something like that.
Maybe I should learn to count in eigth's.
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Author: Matt74
Date: 2016-09-20 22:14
You are right. Some of this will be obvious. You would normally count it like this... (The capital letters are the beginning of a note, and the commas separate notes.)
ONE-and, TWO-and-three, AND-four-and
or you could simplify it to exactly what you said:
ONE, TWO-three, AND-four
To make sure you don't have too many beats in a measure, add up the values.
In 4/4 time a "whole" note is four beats, so one beat is a "quarter" note, and a half a beat is an "eighth". BUT if you are counting beats, or quarter notes, a "quarter" note is 1 beat, an "eighth" is 1/2 a beat, etc. So, your example, of a quarter note, plus a dotted quarter, plus a dotted quarter, would be...
1+ 1 1/2 + 1 1/2 = 4
or the same thing in decimals,
1 + 1.5 + 1.5 = 4
You could also count your example in eighths like this:
ONE-two, THREE-four-five, SIX-seven-eight.
Counting eighths comes in handy when you have a bunch of 16ths and 32nd notes. But once you learn the music, it's usually best to focus on where the main "pulse" is. You can count a march in 2, even though it's written in 4, or count a waltz in 1, even though it's written in 3.
- Matthew Simington
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2016-09-21 14:08
Matt74 wrote:
> Counting eighths comes in handy when you have a bunch of 16ths
> and 32nd notes. But once you learn the music, it's usually
> best to focus on where the main "pulse" is. You can count a
> march in 2, even though it's written in 4, or count a waltz in
> 1, even though it's written in 3.
"Pulse" is the operative word here. It's important to find out what tempo the "clicks" (bar subdivisions) run in, especially when other play a different or complementing pattern.
Eg in "America" in "West Side Story", the tempo is 6/8 but the pulse changes between "in 2" and "in 3" ("I-like-to" "be-in-A" | "me" "ri" "ca") and you count ("1-2-3" "4-5-6" | "1-2" "3-4" "5-6")
Subdividing into the eighths here will add a lot to your precision.
--
Ben
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Author: BGBG
Date: 2016-09-22 22:24
Now that I have read all this, written drafts out in pencil and changed many times, I am starting to think the original music is correct and I just didn't know how to play it and couldn't get how it went exactly with song. I believe the song is sung like what I am told is called 'rubato' and though slow, it goes by faster than I can count and comprehend it. I haven't gotten it for certain yet but I am improving and all this has really helped.
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Author: BGBG
Date: 2016-09-27 04:08
Finally, after reading, studying, playing, counting, re-writing over and over this particular song, I am now convinced the original sheet I downloaded, even though some notes were a little off the lines and I assumed were errors or poor reproductions, actually IS correct and I am actually starting to learn how to play it since learning to count it in eighths. I am happy with result and thankful for all the education I have received. I just did not know how to count or play it. BG.
Post Edited (2016-09-27 04:12)
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