 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: JasonOlney
Date: 2016-09-04 01:18
Hey all-
I'm replacing my recently broken-in-half greenline and I've been evaluating a few clarinets the last few days. What are your go-to tests for new clarinets or how do you choose one in the end? Obviously, I'll go with whichever one I "feel" best about but I'm looking for more suggestions on what to listen for.
Thanks all!
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Author: nellsonic
Date: 2016-09-04 02:04
1) Intonation 2) Responsiveness/evenness 3) Tone.
An instrument may feel amazing and sound beautiful, but if it can't easily be played well in tune it should be left on the shelf. This of course is assuming I'm looking only at reputable instruments to begin with that don't have mechanical or materials issues.
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Author: kdk
Date: 2016-09-04 02:36
nellsonic wrote:
> 1) Intonation 2) Responsiveness/evenness 3) Tone.
>
This is a good ranking of criteria. The problem is that Responsiveness/evenness can be hard to judge unless you're very sure the instrument is in mechanically excellent condition. I'd always want to have a very good repair tech check a prospective purchase for leaks and ask him or her about any problems you notice to find out if they can be easily resolved. Otherwise, you may need to take a little bit of a chance on that 2nd criterion.
Karl
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2016-09-04 02:49
"Just curious as to how your Greenline broke in half."
They just do - you only have to look to them the wrong way and they snap in half. Doesn't take much to shear the tenons off any Greenline instrument.
Greenline is probably the worst ever material to make clarinets and oboes from as it has no tensile strength being effectively filler material - a blend of wood dust and glue.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
Post Edited (2016-09-04 02:51)
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Author: J. J.
Date: 2016-09-05 06:35
Well, that's one opinion. The other is of professionals who prefer the Greenline Toscas over the wooden ones for their stability, precisions, and even tone.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2016-09-05 07:29
It's a fact, not an opinion.
Therefore you can't argue with facts.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: J. J.
Date: 2016-09-05 07:47
"Greenline is probably the worst ever material to make clarinets" is a statement that only focuses on the breakability factor and doesn't consider anything else. It is an opinion drawn from placing the fragility of Greenline material as the top, and perhaps only, complaint.
So, no, it's an opinion. Plenty of people understand that Greenline can break in a way that wood doesn't and still choose to play the instruments. In some cases, it's because they know that the instrument won't crack from humidity changes. In some cases, it's because they prefer the precision cutting of the tone holes and how that impacts evenness and intonation. In some case, it's because they think they sound better.
It's a value judgement and an opinion, same as yours.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2016-09-05 08:19
Greenline like any composite isn't all that stable with temperature changes as several Greenline oboes developed cracks between the top joint trill toneholes as is common on wooden oboes - only on wooden ones the cracks are caused by humidity changes. Also Greenline is more likely to develop stress fractures between toneholes and nearby pillars compared to wooden instruments due to the granular structure of the material.
While it may indeed be a more consistent material compared to natural grenadilla which is massively variable and a lot of it can't even be used (and gets pulverised and turned into Greenline as a result), there is a massive trade-off in its structural weakness.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2016-09-06 02:51
Greenline is (imo) 25% engineering and 75% marketing.
I don't think it's fundamentally different from, say, resonite, except maybe from the price tag.
I don't say it's bad. But it ain't better than other composites used in the past.
--
Ben
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Author: dorjepismo ★2017
Date: 2016-09-06 05:15
After the big three noted above, be sure to play things that you've found hard to play well. For me, that might be things like the solo from the overture to Oberon for the throat tones, something from Debussy's Rhapsodie for legato over the break, and so on. For you, it might be something completely different. On an A, the scales from the Beethoven Violin Concerto will tell you whether you can get the right sound for German stuff, and whether you can phrase long enough. The opening of the Daphnis second suite will tell you a lot about the ergonomics. Worry more about testing at the margins of your ability than what the salesperson in the room might think if something doesn't come out so well. Ideally, a new horn will help you play better than the old one did.
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Author: Grabnerwg
Date: 2016-09-07 17:43
Assuming that you like the tone quality that you are producing, and that the response is even throughout all registers, check the intonation carefully.
If you cannot play the clarinet reasonably in tune, don't buy it.
Walter Grabner
www.clarinetxpress.com
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Author: TomS
Date: 2016-09-10 17:46
Hate to hear that about Greenline material, I thought Buffet had fixed their problems with that stuff ... I have entertained the notion of someday, after my ship comes in, of purchasing a Festival or whatever in Greenline ...
Well, you know, this is why solid wood planking, plywood (or sometimes OSB) is specified for certain building codes, while MDF is not. MDF is like Greenline in that is is just sawdust held together with glue ...
Tom
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Author: hartt
Date: 2016-09-10 18:54
Quite sometime ago, Ken Shaw posted a list of considerations when selecting a clarinet. The list was in order of importance. I recall the top considerations are:
intonation, intonation, intonation. Thereafter I do not recall the lesser ones.
Perhaps Ken will read this and again offer his list or it is recalled for re-posting by the BB administrators, Mark/GBK
Dennis
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2016-09-10 18:55
Exactly - you wouldn't want to live in a house that has weight bearing lintels, joists or roof trusses formed from wood chippings and glue.
I don't even entertain the notion of MDF staircases, but there are plenty of houses I've seen that have them.
A board member over on the oboe boards had a Greenline oboe and the middle tenon on that sheared off with absolutely no warning and it wasn't even under any undue stress or shock. I gather he plays a Marigaux now.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Johan H Nilsson
Date: 2016-09-14 02:56
These are two undeniable facts:
Greenline has a better form stability than wood.
Greenline has smaller granularity than wood.
This means that greenline clarinets will be more consistently made, more stable in different temperature and humidity conditions and maintain their original form over time. It also means that the tone holes generally will seal better.
Wood has some advantages too, but greenline was the material to defend. ;-)
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2016-09-14 03:14
Toneholes on wooden clarinets can be made to seal every bit as good as Greenline, ebonite or plastic toneholes. But that's rarely ever done by large volume makers and Buffet are one such maker that have some of the worst toneholes on their wooden clarinets.
The worst aspect with them is they're far too sharp edged, so they will punch through skin pads on both grenadilla and Greenline clarinets. And having such a razor edged crown means any imperfections are going to be made far more apparent as pads (cork, skin and Gore-Tex) won't conform to such small imperfections. Leather pads are more forgiving, but in any case the toneholes ideally should be perfect being both level and free from any flaws.
So it's left to repairers to put right the flaws by filling in the small exposed vessels, nicks and chips that run across the crowns once they've been machined (with superglue and wood dust) and also to take the sharp edge off them to make them more pad friendly, but not making the crowns too wide in the process.
As Greenline is in essence filler material and isn't all that far removed from a mixture of wood dust and superglue (which most makers and repairers use as filler on grenadilla instruments), the toneholes are far less likely to have any imperfections in them compared to their grenadilla counterparts.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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