 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: dubrosa22
Date: 2016-09-03 11:23
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Yesterday I acquired an Albert system clarinet down here in Sydney.
I've been curious about Albert systems and knowing well the risks of High Pitch and severe cracks, etc. I thought that for the price of a good pack of reeds it was a decent punt (plus I do so enjoy restoring simple system and wooden Boehm flutes).
It is a 13-key, 2 ring maillechort grenadilla or cocuswood Bb in what I suspect is HP.
Overall length (with its wooden Buffet-Crampon mpc) = 643mm
Barrel = 62mm
The bell is stamped:
MADE IN FRANCE [in a ribbon]
[SUNBURSTLOGO]
REYNOLDS & CO.
[SUNBURST LOGO]
CHALLENGE
PREMIÈRE QUALITÉ
PARIS
The barrel is stamped exactly the same but omits the MADE IN FRANCE banner. No other stamps or serial numbers anywhere else.
Unsurprisingly, the barrel is cracked right through to the bore (in two places) and the upper joint has two large surface cracks that, so far, don't appear to enter the bore running in conjection with the posts for the A and A# keys.
Otherwise the condition is quite excellent. All the keys are functioning and have good springs and decent pointed screws or rods. The pads and corks are, of course, an absolute abomination but the toneholes are all in excellent condition (chip free!) and the bore is shiny and smooth.
The wood throughout is a very fair brownish red which makes me wonder if it is cocuswood? It reminds me of my mid-19th century French cocuswood flute.
It came with a very good condition grenadilla wood Buffet-Crampon Cie mouthpiece in excellent condition. Near perfect condition, honestly.
Also a JTL stamped (Jerome Thibouville Lamy I'm assuming) ligature and cap in nickelsilver.
And the leather case is in pretty good nick too. (And doesn't stink!)
I immediately decided it was probably a Thibouville stencil. Pretty much every 'France' stamped stencil clarinet around the turn of the 20th century seemed to be made by Thibouville. It certainly resembles their 13 key, 2 ring model #36.
Researching 'Reynolds & Co.' I turned up mostly 'F. A. Reynolds' and his later named 'Reynolds' woodwind and brass company (famous in their own right for stenciling French SML saxes). But nothing late 19th/early 20th century. So I decided that perhaps it was a small local Australian firm and tried the marvellous NLA Trove archive with surprising luck!
A. P. Sykes was a successful Australian musical instrument importer in the late 19th and early 20th centuries and the Reynolds 'Challenge' instrument range was the bulk of his offerings. In the linked below 1928 catalogue Sykes lists saxes from Dolnet, Couesnon and Kohlert, oboes from SR. Robert etc.
The Sykes catalogue 'clarionets' are listed as by 'Reynolds and Co., Paris' and the Boehm models by SR. Robert. But did Reynolds & Co., Paris actually exist as a maker or just a stenciler?
http://nla.gov.au/nla.obj-279934845/view
Anyway, I've cleaned, disassembled and currently generously oiling the body. It will be interesting to see how it plays after the cracks and new pads and corks are in. It was well looked after and had some repair attempts on the barrel and the E/B key so I assume it plays okay to warrant the care and attention?
Looking to playing this once restored and repaired.
V
Post Edited (2016-09-05 03:10)
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Author: ned
Date: 2016-09-04 06:09
I counted twelve keys only. The layout is identical to my Hawkes & Son simple system of indeterminate age, although I suspect it is circa WW1.
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Author: ned
Date: 2016-09-04 06:13
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I counted twelve keys only. The layout is identical to my Hawkes & Son simple system of indeterminate age, although I suspect it is circa WW1.
Here's a picture.
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Author: dubrosa22
Date: 2016-09-04 12:07
Yes 12 touchpieces but I believe the Patented C# counts as number 13. I could be mistaken.
V
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Author: dubrosa22
Date: 2016-09-04 12:18
Very nice looking Hawkes & Son, Ned.
Did you recently have it overhauled or was it just a well looked after instrument?
Is it HP or low pitch? And what is its assembled length?
Thanks,
V
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Author: ned
Date: 2016-09-04 13:55
I had it overhauled quite some years ago, subsequent to purchasing it as a spare instrument in about 1982 or thereabouts. Rumour has it that it had once belonged to the principal clarinet player in the Tasmanian Symphony Orchestra.
I bought it as my (then) current instrument was fallen upon by an inebriated football supporter at a Grand Final piss-up. We TOLD him not to stand on the chair and hold the microphone, but would he listen - drunk and deaf.
It's one of a pair, the other being its A big brother, for which I paid the princely sum of $100 for both. I have no real need for the A, as I play New Orleans Jazz and of course, use only the Bb, so the A is only for looking. It DOES work, but I can't see myself shelling out $500 or so, for an overhaul.
Yes, it's low pitch and has a reasonably big bore compared to either of my two Buffet Albert instruments.
PS...I still can't see that 13th key. Which one is C#? I call all my notes by the piano, you see.
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Author: dubrosa22
Date: 2016-09-05 02:56
Attachment: reynolds1928_01.jpg (593k)
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A lovely pair of Hawkes & Sons to own - very rare I think, especially in Australia.
The Patent C# is the fourth tonehole up from the bell (linked to the C#/Eb touchpiece).
Am I wrong is assuming that is the 13th key? This Albert system does only have 2 trill keys whereas many Alberts from the period often have 3 trills.
I've attached some more photos of the Reynolds clarinet (the player side) and finally some pages from the A. P. Sykes 1928 catalogue. It lists an identical model (#100) as:
Albert model, 14 nickel-silver keys, 2 rings, extra C# key, cork joints, African Blackwood, complete in case. £7 10 0
It also pictures an identical case, the JTL ligature and some of the same reeds I found lodged at the bottom of the case.
V
Post Edited (2016-09-05 03:06)
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2016-09-05 03:17
To be honest I don't fully understand how the keys are numbered on non-Boehm system clarinets - especially German, Austrian and Oehler systems that have from 17 up to 23 on German and Austrian clarinets and from 24 to 28 keys on Oehler system clarinets. I either get a much lower number or much higher number, but never the actual number specified depending if I count the touchpieces or all the individual keys, vents and other mechanical parts.
Albert/simple systems are usually stated as having 13 keys and 2 rings in their simplest form (without the patent C#), but I can only count 12 touchpieces and the two rings. 13 keys if you take into account the E/B key is in two parts - the long lever with the touchpiece and the open-standing pad cup at the lower end.
http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/download.html/1,5095/reynolds1928_02.jpg
Looking at the catalogue and then counting the individual key pieces, there are 14 individual key parts if you count them all but exclude the ring keys on a simple system clarinet (or "clarionet") fitted with the patent C# (with the double F/C key pad cups), so that seems to add up.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: dubrosa22
Date: 2016-09-05 05:05
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Yes, it's very confusing, Chris!
Martin Thibouville in a 1890 catalogue lists an Albert system clarinet (#33) with 2 rings, 3 trill keys and Patent C# as a 15-key! Honestly, I only count 13 touchpieces (see 2nd attachment)!
V
Post Edited (2016-09-05 05:09)
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Author: ned
Date: 2016-09-05 05:23
''Am I wrong is assuming that is the 13th key? This Albert system does only have 2 trill keys whereas many Alberts from the period often have 3 trills.''
I don't think there is a 13th key lurking in there anywhere.
In jazz circles anyway, we regard an instrument with two bottom rings and two side trill keys as a ''simple'' system.
An instrument with four or more rings and at least three side trill keys is known as an ''Albert'' system.
Albert is a manufacturers name, of course, but the name seems to have become associated with non-Boehm (but not German) instruments, as a matter of course, for easy identification.
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Author: dubrosa22
Date: 2016-09-05 05:47
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In jazz circles anyway, we regard an instrument with two bottom rings and two side trill keys as a ''simple'' system.
An instrument with four or more rings and at least three side trill keys is known as an ''Albert'' system.
I'm fine with simple system as the name of my Reynolds & Co. but I do wonder if that's actually true in marketing/commonplace reality?
The M. Thibouville catalogue posted above lists at least 4 models of clarinet with only 2 trill keys as '13-key Albert system clarinets'.
And the A. P. Sykes Reynolds catalogue also calls their 14-key clarinet (with 2 trill keys, see cropped image attachment) as an Albert system (which is the same model as my instrument I believe)!
I do realise a true Albert clarinet is actually one made to Eugene Albert's original design in every way not just a 'near identical' design.
But the same could also be said of all Klose/Boehm system clarinets. That's partly why we say an 18 or 20-key/7 ring is a 'Full Boehm' clarinet, however, it is widely accepted that a 17-key/6 ring is still a 'Boehm' clarinet.
I could be totally mistaken however.
V
Post Edited (2016-09-05 06:55)
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Author: Tony F
Date: 2016-09-05 06:43
I suspect that the use of the term "Simple System" is just a British convention for an Albert system clarinet.
Tony F.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2016-09-05 07:31
Albert system and simple system generally mean the same thing in the UK.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: ned
Date: 2016-09-05 08:02
Here's a link to one of the entries in the Musical Instruments Museum Edinburgh.
It's a big catalogue, also available in print format. Happy researching to you.
http://collections.ed.ac.uk/mimed/record/15693?highlight=*:*
In this instance it shows a Cousenon manufactured instrument. It looks pretty much identical to my Hawkes & Son and your Reynolds & Co instrument.
I'll leave it to the experts now, to determine the finer points.
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Author: ned
Date: 2016-09-05 08:14
In the Edinburgh collection, a Hawkes & Son from around the turn of 19th -20th century.
Is this a patented C# key model? You can get a good close up by clicking on the image.
http://collections.ed.ac.uk/mimed/record/17413?highlight=hawkes
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Author: dubrosa22
Date: 2016-09-05 08:24
Attachment: 20127ejalbert.jpg (11k)
Thanks Ned, yes it does look near identical (the superficial lyre holder being the only difference.).
The undisputed French provenance of my Reynolds certainly leads me to believe it is Thibouville or Couesnon stencil.
The Edinburgh University collection is a wonderful resource.
Shame the Sydney Powerhouse has now archived its woodwind collection out of public view. They do have an E. J. Albert clarinet there:
http://www.powerhousemuseum.com/collection/database/?irn=254195
Can't tell if it has 12 or 13 keys (ie. touchpieces)
V
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Author: dubrosa22
Date: 2016-09-05 08:31
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Is this a patented C# key model? You can get a good close up by clicking on the image.
http://collections.ed.ac.uk/mimed/record/17413?highlight=hawkes
Yes, it has the Patent C#, with 5 rings (with a bridge key).
I've attached the colour image with a circle around the Patent C# keycup for you.
V
Post Edited (2016-09-05 08:32)
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2016-09-05 08:55
Attachment: patentcsharp.bmp (1476k)
The patent C# allows the player to do a low E-F# or upper B-C# trill by holding the E/B key down and trilling the F/C key.
The two parts of the mechanism are made clear in the attachment. The red part is linked to the E/B key and the blue part is all part of the F/C key.
On a clarinet without the patent C#, only the upper of the two pad cups would've made up the F/C key (like a soprano sax low C key but smaller), so a B-C# trill would be nearly impossible as you'd have to slide between the E#B and F#/C# touches with the left pinky only.
There was an extra linkage added to this clarinet that linked the E/B key to the F/C key (as the crows foot does on Boehm systems) but that would've cancelled out the patent C#, so I removed that in my diagram (the original photo is below).
http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/download.html/1,5102/0036395d-0003_patentcsharp.jpg
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
Post Edited (2016-09-05 09:11)
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Author: ned
Date: 2016-09-06 08:32
https://web.archive.org/web/20061125144849/http://www.music.ed.ac.uk/euchmi/ugw/ucjd4291R166a.jpg
The clarinet pictured has ONLY 12 keys. The illustration comes from the manufacturer's advertisement and the description has clearly been subject to ''marketer's hype".
Vaughan,
I think you have fallen for the hype - unless there is a key hidden from view.
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Author: dubrosa22
Date: 2016-09-06 10:11
Marketing hype?
No, just confusing old clarinet nomenclature. It's even worse with simple system flutes.
V
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Author: dubrosa22
Date: 2016-09-21 10:38
I just hunted about in my sheet music books for a Albert/Simple system fingering chart and found the H. E. Klosé book 'Clarinet School' published by Hawkes & Son in 1906.
It has a Bohm fingering chart and also very good Albert/Simple System chart (including trills). No surprises in the fingerings but I was proven correct in stating that a regular Albert/Simple System flute with 12 touch-pieces is known as a '13 key' clarinet. Page 9 describes the keys and the numbering of them in great detail:
"Description and fingering of the Keys.
(Simple System).
Key No. 1 - Is an open key to which a lever is attached, and is closed by the fourth finger of the left hand, all other keys and holes being closed, produces the notes E and B.
Key No. 13 must be opened for all notes above A, in the second space.
Key No. 2 - Is a closed key and is opened by the fourth finger of the left hand also, all other keys and holes being closed, excepting No. 1, (which remains open) produces F# or Gb and C# and Db.
Key No. 3 - Is an open key, and is closed by the fourth finger of the right hand, all other keys and holes being closed, produces F and C.
Key No. 4 - Is a closed key, and is opened by the fourth finger of the right hand, all other keys and holes being closed, excepting Nos. 1 and 3 (which remain open) produces Ab or G# and Eb or D#.
Key No. 5 - Is a closed key, and is opened by the third finger of the right hand, all other keys and holes above it being closed, produces Bb or A# and F or E#.
Ring-Key No. 6 - Is an open key, and is closed by the action of the rings which surround the second and third finger-holes on the lower joint, right hand.
Key No. 7 - Is a closed key, and is opened by the fourth finger of the left hand, all other keys and holes above it being closed, produces C# or Db and G# or Ab.
Key No. 8 - Is a closed key, and is opened by the third finger of the left hand, all other keys and holes above it being closed, produces Eb or D# and Bb or A#.
Key No. 9 - Is a closed key, and is opened by the first finger of the right hand, all other keys above it, and the thumb hole being closed, produces F or E# and C or B#.
Key No. 10 - Is a closed key, and is opened by the second finger of the left hand, all other keys above it being closed, and all holes open, produces Ab or G#.
Key No. 11 - Is a closed key, and is opened by the first finger of the left hand, all other keys above it being closed, and all holes open, produces A.
Shake-Key No. 12 - Is a closed key, and is opened by the first finger of the right hand and is used only for making shakes.
Thumb key No. 13 - Is a closed key, and is opened by the thumb of the left hand, all other keys being closed, excepting No. 11 and all holes open, produces A# or Bb and is kept open for all notes above A, in the second octave.
Key X - on the lower joint (extra C# key). Is an open key connected with keys 1 and 3, and is closed by the fourth finger of the left hand on key No. 1, all other keys and holes above it being closed, produces F#, Gb, C# or Db."
So, in short the 13th key is the 'Ring-Key' so my Reynolds and all other Albert/Simple system clarinets with 12 touch-pieces plus 2 rings were known to be '13 key clarinets'.
Regards,
V
http://www.boosey.com/pages/shop/product_detail.asp?id=604516&a=
Post Edited (2016-09-21 10:56)
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Author: chris moffatt
Date: 2016-09-23 02:03
It seems that on german system clarinets and also on Albert clarinets the number of keys is actually the number of pads. Thus e.g. my Adler has 19 Keys but only 15 touchpieces.
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Author: Benj44
Date: 2024-05-31 09:44
Dear sir I am new to this forum. I was wondering if you could help me out ? I would appreciate if you could rescan the finger chart albert system clarinet, because i can’t make out some of the numbers on it, and it is the only one that I can find.
If it possible for you to do.
Regards Benj
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The Clarinet Pages
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