 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Steve Frielink
Date: 2001-05-22 15:22
This has had me scratching my head for a while. I have been using Vandoren products for many years, and individually I think they are decent. The problem I see is that I don't think the various engineers talk to each other when they are creating their designs. For example, I play on a Vandoren mouthpiece. I buy Vandoren reeds. OK so far. Now if you use a Vandoren reed clipper (both the lever kind and the expensive one with the little razor blade in it), they change the profile of the reed tip so it does not match the original reed profile, or the mouthpiece profile. I'm not sure how much of an effect this has - the reed may still seal properly, but it doesn't seem good to me.
Then, I buy the fancy Vandoren ligature, with the interchangeable reed holders. With a Vandoren mouthpiece, Vandoren reed and Vandoren ligature, the Vandoren mouthpiece cap will not fit on the mouthpiece because the gap in the cap for the ligature in the cap is too narrow. You have to move the ligature way up the mouthpiece and tighten it down to make it narrow enough for the cap to fit. I guess I could file the cap a little to widen the opening, but I don't think I should have to do that.
Anyway, I don't really want to bash Vandoren, but this is what I have experienced. Does anyone know of a model of reed clipper that accurately cuts the proper tip profile? Does anyone know someone at Vandoren who can address these issues? Am I the only one that has had these problems?
Thanks for letting me vent. I feel much better now.
Steve Frielink
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Author: jan
Date: 2001-05-22 15:32
i use a vandoren mouthpiece and the vandoren optimum lig (v12 reeds too) and the mouthpiece cover does not fit. unless i hold the clarinet perfectly upright it will fall off. hasnt bothered me a lot except that i paid the price for the lig with the cover and i cant actually use the cover.
jan
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Author: L. Omar Henderson
Date: 2001-05-22 16:47
I guess with a little age that I have become a more vocal consumer and will register complaints to the highest company levels, suggestions - and even return merchandise if it does not perform properly. All companies are driven by profit and the consumer has the ultimate control to buy from other vendors if the quality and performance of a company's products are not as expected. I greatly appreciate, from my own business point of view, the fact that most people will no longer buy inferior products just because they have the big brand name when there are superior alternatives at the same or lower prices. Maybe there is a market for a cap that will fit the VD ligature?
The Doctor
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Author: drew
Date: 2001-05-22 17:41
I've had good experience with the Cordier reed trimmer matching the original profile of the reed and mouthpiece, although I'm using a Selmer mp, not Vandoren.
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Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2001-05-22 18:24
I really think the Vandoren company should address this issue. Their products should be compatible with one another. That is part of the reason someone wants to stick to their whole line of accessories--thinking they actually benefit from using the same brand of things made for their instrument. You should let them know about this thread and how we clarinetists feel about this situation.
I'm thinking of becoming a dealer for Vandoren products, and this does affect my thinking somewhat.
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Author: L. Omar Henderson
Date: 2001-05-22 22:59
Dear Brenda and all,
I guess that I feel "soap boxy" today so please forgive the ramblings about philosophy. -- I have become friends with many small music store owners who receive a lot of pressure to carry the "Line". But as I see it the role of the owner (other than making a profit which is hard to do) is to give experienced advice to customers about his or her experience and knowledge about what products work best for the particular instrument - not just to buy all one brand unless the brand has superior products across the line. I am a fisherman too, and unfortunately I have seen most of the small sporting goods stores go out of business due to the advent of the "super store". You could get good advice from experienced people at the small store (value added) but now at the super store your salesperson does not know a lure from a locket (they used to sell jewelery at KMart). The same sad events are happening in the music store business and unless there is value added (from advice and experience at the small store), people with buy the "line" from the superstore and even buy the "store brand line" which is sometimes and inferior copy of an awful product for a few cents less. Why? - price of course, but also a lack of knowledgable people to give advice on products. Also, as consumers, as I eluded to in the previous post, we must let the manufacturers know that they need to improve and (in the case of the VD cap) modify their products for optimal use. We now have choices from the global market and improved technology, the brand name people will face more competition from "the better products" if we let them know that we expect the best products at the best price. Boom - that's the sound of me falling off the soapbox.
The Doctor
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Author: Mark Pinner
Date: 2001-05-23 00:13
I have had numerous talks, interviews with vandoren representatives here in Australia. Last week in fact their international sales representative was here. Problems are always brought up and always promises are made to look into those problems. Generally speaking though nothing ever changes because vandoren and rico are a duopoly and have little real competition. Just keep complaining and complaining and one day maybe they will actually listen.
If an item is not fit for the intended use ie. the mouthpiece cap does not fit return it to the dealer. Maybe vandoren and others listen more to the dealers than the players.
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Author: John Sachko
Date: 2001-05-23 04:32
An interesting thread. But not unique to the clarinet/music business. A few years ago I bought an IBM computer and a telephony modem that they advertised as an upgrade option. After many frustrating hours, I learned (from IBM tech support) that their modem was not compatible with their computer!!!
More to the point, I cannot imagine any major (or even minor) clarinet, or clarinet accessory manufacturer, or marketer that would not watch this site like a hawk to feel the pulse of the public. I also cannot imagine any major manufacturer, in any field, remaining on top if they arrogantly ignore the demands of their customers.
This forum, IMHO, is probably the most visible and influential vehicle for clarinetists worldwide. If the "big boys" don't get the message here, someone is definitely asleep at the switch.
I keep hoping for the best.
Please keep up the brilliant work, all of you.
Just,
John
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Author: L. Omar Henderson
Date: 2001-05-23 14:08
Dear John,
I would want to think that you are right about getting the manufacturer's attention but alas they seem to play the "numbers" game and know that >80% of their business is from newer students and players of less than 3 years experience who will buy the "Line" like lemmings going over the cliff. It will only be when teachers, strong minded amateurs, professional musicians, smaller music store owners, band directors, and the very vocal Sneezy Crowd influences and educates the 80%, and they loose market share, that there will be a significant response from the "big guys". It is reminescent of the dinosaurs who got larger and larger while keeping tiny brains. We rarely get comments from the big manufacturers on the BB but I wonder if they "watch" to see if there is a revolution brewing - probably too arrogant with too little brain power to do so?
The Doctor
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Author: amiee27
Date: 2001-05-23 22:18
I know what you mean, as a high school clarinetist i just bought a Vandoren 5RV Lyre mouthpiece and a Rovner ligature. The ligature came with a cover, but in no way does it even come close to fitting the mouthpiece with or without the ligature, its tooo big without the ligature and too small with it, Personally, i think its a plot between the companies to make the consumer buy more, lol.
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