 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Jazzy Yazzy
Date: 2016-08-30 05:48
Today I got my chair placement in band and my grade on a four scale test - 3rd chair and a 91. But I'm not sure why! I only blipped one note but a couple weeks ago when I took a test I messed up the whole upper octave of an arpeggio and got a 96. He said he based it off of tone quality as well, but I used by wooden clarinet, best mouthpiece, and even tried different pressure plates on my ligature to get the best tone! Furthermore, the one who got first played their scales at least 15 bpm below my tempo. I am so confused and frustrated.
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Author: Tobin
Date: 2016-08-30 05:56
I understand your frustration. No one here can do anything but speculate. You have to go back and, as civilly as you can, ask why?
James
Gnothi Seauton
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Author: Bob Bernardo
Date: 2016-08-30 06:02
Sounds like you are venting out your frustrations. Are you taking private lessons? Can you send me a private email of you playing? savagesax@aol.com Maybe I can give you some hints and and advice with practicing tips.
Designer of - Vintage 1940 Cicero Mouthpieces and the La Vecchia mouthpieces
Yamaha Artist 2015
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Author: GBK
Date: 2016-08-30 06:05
In the long run and in the real world, high school musical experiences are relatively meaningless.
As you get older, you can look forward to playing in more rewarding musical groups (college, community, or amateur ensembles) than a mediocre high school band.
It's really not worth losing any sleep over it. Just play your best and eventually you'll be recognized.
...GBK
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Author: Wes
Date: 2016-08-30 10:26
Good players are needed in the other chairs in the band. Play your best as you can and play musically regardless of the chair you play.
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Author: Tony F
Date: 2016-08-30 10:39
Band directors will often place a stronger player in the 2nd's, 3rd's or 4th's to bolster the weaker players. Play the best you can in whatever position the director places you. Is your object to score points or play music?
Tony F.
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Author: clarinetguy ★2017
Date: 2016-08-30 15:58
It sounds like there are some very talented players in your section, and that's a good thing. Chair placement isn't easy for a director, especially when several students are almost identical in ability. As others have pointed out, don't lose sleep over it. It isn't worth it. Just do the best you can do.
I remember a music camp I attended when I was in high school, and was pleased when I was given a very high chair placement. A week later we had sectionals and challenges, and I was stunned when I went down about three chairs. My technique was better than the others, but my tone certainly wasn't--and that's what they were looking for. In college band, I was often given a low chair placement, even though I was often one of the few who could play the part when the director decided to "go down the line" (not one of those experiences anyone looked forward to). I decided I wasn't going to let it bother me, and looking back now 40 years later, I'm glad I made that decision.
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2016-08-30 17:27
Jazzy Yazzy wrote:
> Today I got my chair placement in band and my grade on a four
> scale test - 3rd chair and a 91. But I'm not sure why! I only
> blipped one note but a couple weeks ago when I took a test I
> messed up the whole upper octave of an arpeggio and got a 96.
> He said he based it off of tone quality as well, but I used by
> wooden clarinet, best mouthpiece, and even tried different
> pressure plates on my ligature to get the best tone!
The only person who can explain the result is your band director. It's possible you hear yourself differently from the way other people hear you and that your impression of your sound is different as well.
> Furthermore, the one who got first played their scales at least
> 15 bpm below my tempo. I am so confused and frustrated.
Unless you were listening to the other audition with a metronome in your hand (a cell phone app, perhaps), I don't know how you would know this. But in any case, tempo isn't the only criterion for well-played scales or anything else. Smoothness of technique, the quality of staccato if some of the scales were tongued, steadiness of tempo (regardless of speed) are all important. Unless the tempo is crushingly slow, they are more important than how fast they scales are played.
Besides, there must have been more to the placement audition than scales. You don't mention how the rest of the auditions went for you or the payer who was placed first.
Take any audition result not as a competitive victory or defeat, but as a way of gauging what you do well and what you need to improve. Again, the best person to break all of that down for you is the teacher who auditioned you.
Karl
Karl
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Author: Matt74
Date: 2016-08-30 17:58
FWIW I think 2nd and 3rd parts are MUCH harder to play than 1st.
I played 3rd in a community band last year. Let's say the band overall wasn't awesome. I was embarrassed when I heard the recording of our performance. However, the first clarinets were pretty good, but obviously didn't want anyone to join them. The seconds were fine, but there were a lot of them. The thirds, on the other hand had a hard time playing the music, and not just the hard parts. I figured I could help out a lot at third, and I did. It helped them a lot to follow me and to keep in tune.
I learned something watching "Nodame Cantabile", the live action version. You see the same thing in a lot of Anime. I also read about it in Lang Lang's autobiography, and in Shinichi Suzuki's writings. It's the thing about working hard and "going to the next level". I grew up thinking you were either good at something or not. I also grew up thinking that "the powers that be" were basically arbitrary, and it didn't matter what I did. Sometimes that's true. I do think think however, you can succeed if you work hard. If your director didn't like your tone as much as the next guy, work on it. Practice long tones. Play your scales slower but very evenly, slurred smoothly, with no interruptions. Practice your tonguing with constant air. Then, do like the guys said. In the long run what is important is how well you play.
- Matthew Simington
Post Edited (2016-08-30 19:00)
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Author: Tony F
Date: 2016-08-30 18:26
I play in two community bands. One started some years back as a novice New Horizons band and now plays at around level 2-2.5, and in that band I play 1st clarinet. The other is a long-established civic band, with a much higher standard of musicianship, and with them I play 3rd clarinet.
I think that the 3rd parts that I play in the civic band are much more difficult than the 1st parts that I play in the New Horizons band. I thoroughly enjoy playing in both bands. Each offers me its own unique challenges, and I gain greatly from playing in them. Sit in your 3rd chair and enjoy playing the music.
Tony F.
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Author: Philip Caron
Date: 2016-08-30 19:29
I like the idea of strong players leading each section, 1st, 2nd & 3rd, but I've never seen it done. Typically the goal seems to be "best" to "worst", chair by chair, down through the 1st section, then the 2nd, then the 3rd.
In our local community band, the last few seasons we played we had a maximum of eight clarinets. The director sat one particular clarinetist in the first section, and split all the others between second and third. The sole 1st player was "solo" not just in the marked solos, but much of the rest of the time as well, playing the written line in the written register alone. No other section had such an arrangement. I asked the director about it, but the answer was vague. It was one of several reasons I didn't join the band this past summer.
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2016-08-30 19:52
When will people stop seeing 2nd or 3rd chair as form of punishment? (and those not making 3rd are given a beaten-up alto clarinet)
Maybe the director could have been a bit more encouraging in saying something like "You're good. That's why I need you in 3rd."
Don't worry about your placement. Be a competent team player and enjoy the privilege of being able to make music at all.
--
Ben
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2016-08-30 23:15
tictactux wrote:
> When will people stop seeing 2nd or 3rd chair as form of
> punishment? (and those not making 3rd are given a beaten-up
> alto clarinet)
>
To be clear, I think we're talking about "3rd chair 1st clarinet." In my experience it's the last chair 3rd clarinet who gets the alto clarinet (with the band director hoping he never hears it). I think many of the responses have assumed Yasme was consigned to the 3rd clarinet section.
There's nothing wrong with 3rd chair. There's also nothing wrong with wanting to be 1st chair - it has its perks. But you have to look for reasons why you're one and not the other, and that rarely comes from finding fault with someone who placed higher than you did. You become the best by learning to play really well - regardless of anyone else's playing. If your really well is more polished than someone else's really well, you'll "win." So, the path to "winning" is to find out what you need to improve and then work to improve it.
Meanwhile, try not to forget that music is usually a collaborative art and the quality of the total experience is more important than the result of viewing music as a competitive "music as athletics" event.
Karl
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2016-08-31 01:12
You have stumbled over the most important rule for auditions. Slow and perfect always beats fast and uneven, even if you only make one mistake.
Start learning your scales and arpeggios dead slow. Set your metronome to 60 and play one note per beat. As you increase the speed, never go faster than perfect.
As Ed Palanker of the Baltimore Symphony has written, what sinks the highest number of auditioners is inaccurate rhythm.
Difficulties are built into scales. An interval may require the movement of only one finger, while another requires movement of three fingers, one in contrary motion. Your job is to make the changes identical.
You do this by grouping -- that is, playing groups of 2 notes, the first as a grace note (as fast as possible) and then going to the next note. Then you move up, playing the 3rd and 4th notes the same way. When this pattern is smooth and even, you reverse the pattern -- 1st note long, 2nd note a fast grace note to the 3rd note, and so on.
This is illustrated on the wonderful Nate's Violin site. Go to http://www.natesviolin.com/blog/ and then to the end of the page, titled "Gain speed and accuracy by grouping notes."
Use this practice method and you're guaranteed to get the first chair in the next audition.
Ken Shaw
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2016-08-31 03:04
Ken Shaw wrote:
> You have stumbled over the most important rule for auditions.
> Slow and perfect always beats fast and uneven, even if you only
> make one mistake.
>
Up (or down) to point. No one is getting a first chair in a band I conduct from playing *too* slowly, even if the notes are right.
But the principal is that you should play at the most musical tempo you can play cleanly for a school audition. Playing faster than you can handle is foolish. If someone else can play faster with equal accuracy, and the tempo is still musically appropriate, then they'll place better. But if you play faster than your fingers can keep up with *cleanly* someone who plays slower but still appropriately and cleaner may come off better.
Again, none of us heard your audition, so we don't know how you sounded objectively. Ask your band director.
Karl
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2016-08-31 03:43
Jazzy Yazzy,
I believe your band director gave you a big clue with "He said he based it off of tone quality as well."
So, you are playing 1st clarinet, right? Now be the best 3rd chair, 1st clarinet that your director has ever had in the band.
Time to move on!
HRL
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