 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: mmatisoff
Date: 2016-08-28 04:52
I am still having problems with my Leblanc Opus playing flat. When I first start playing (cold clarinet) it can be as much at 32 cents flat. After warming up, it typically drops to 14-15 cents flat. Both my Opus barrels are too long. At some point, I'm going to have to find a shorter barrel (assuming there is one). How many cents flat are considered acceptable? My Evette & Schaeffer has the opposite problem: it is very sharp and needs a considerable longer barrel. I have two Backun barrels; problem is the mouthpieces is too loose. Once person told me to wrap floss around the cork. I haven't done that yet.
I've looked in the mirror to make sure my embouchure is correct. I've needed some work there, too. I can get it down 5 - 10 cents by correcting my embouchure. Thanks. M
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Author: johng ★2017
Date: 2016-08-28 07:00
I understand that most people can't tell an out of tune note that is within 4 or 5 cents off. In addition, most people are more sensitive to flatness than they are to sharpness. That being said, being 15 cents flat is not tolerable and you need to fix it with a shorter barrel, better embouchure, etc. I have found some brands of reeds play flatter than others all other things being equal. With your embouchure try taking a bit more mouthpiece in your mouth and see if that helps to bring up the pitch. You don't say if the flatness is happening throughout the range or just certain notes or ranges. Your answer to that may lead to more suggestions.
John Gibson, Founder of JB Linear Music, www.music4woodwinds.com
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2016-08-28 17:19
mmatisoff wrote:
> Certain notes. Not throughout.
Did you post about this a short time ago or was it someone else? It seems like a familiar conversation.
If it's only certain specific notes, keep in mind that a change in barrel length will change the entire instrument. The notes nearest the barrel will change the most, but everything will move, so if you go to a shorter barrel your whole clarinet will be sharper.
If only the throat notes are flat, a slightly shorter barrel or one with a smaller bore or a mouthpiece with a less scooped baffle may help bring them up a little. If the twelfths are not right so that the whole clarion tunes differently from the chalumeau, you may find a barrel to minimize the difference, but it isn't necessarily a matter of length - it may be you need a different bore shape, which means a lot of experimentation.
If specific notes are out of tune in no particular pattern, it's usually more effective to tune those notes individually, realizing that whatever you do to one register will affect the others as well. The main reason why throat notes are so easily individually adjustable is that there are no twelfths to worry about.
Karl
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Author: mmatisoff
Date: 2016-08-28 20:30
I did post something earlier. I went back and looked back at my post.
The difference I noted is that I'm trying out five new Gennusa mps. I noted that I get better response with V21 (rather than my standard Rue 56 3.5+ reeds) using these mps (most very good, so far, one great). I don't understand what "cents" refers to and how many cents are acceptable (# or b).
After warming up the clarinet, most of the notes are in tune. Those that are glat are scatter about, mostly in the throat tones. I have a 66 mm and 65 mm barrel. Backun's Fatboy goes down to 64 mm. I didn't know if that is short enough or if I should go down to a 62 mm. Thanks Marty
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2016-08-28 21:16
maybe you should get some cheap plastic barrel off the internet and have it shortened to 62mm. If the intonation is about right then (don't worry about timbre and the like), consider having your longest one shortened, or trade it in against a shorter one.
BTW the difference between A=440 and A=442 are 7.8ish cents (just to give you an idea)
--
Ben
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2016-08-29 02:09
mmatisoff wrote:
> I don't understand what "cents" refers to
> and how many cents are acceptable (# or b).
>
A cent is one hundredth of a semi-tone (half step). So, 20 cents flat or sharp would a tenth of a step, or a fifth of a half-step. Depending on what range you're talking about, cents represent different numbers of Herz (cycles per second). The higher you go, the greater the number of Hz in one cent.
> After warming up the clarinet, most of the notes are in tune.
> Those that are flat are scatter about, mostly in the throat
> tones.
This is why I've suggested a couple of times that a shorter barrel may just trade one set of problems for another. If most of your clarinet is in tune, it will not be with a shorter barrel. Notes that are now in tune will be sharp. By the time you get the throat register up to pitch, you may have driven the rest of the instrument up too high for comfort. You do want the overall pitch of the instrument to be slightly sharp so you have room to go up or down as conditions demand. But if you're spot on for most of your range, a millimeter shorter would be plenty too ensure that amount of flexibility.
You really need to have someone who knows what he's doing evaluate your pitch problems first hand. You've gotten several suggestions about barrels, so if you want to go in that direction, have at it. But if your description of the problem is accurate, I don't think you'll be happy with the result. Take it to a qualified tech and get his or her opinion.
Karl
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Author: mmatisoff
Date: 2016-08-29 02:23
Thanks Karl. There aren't are repair techs where I live, but perhaps one of the more advanced players in my band can help me out.
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2016-08-29 03:40
Ask around among your band mates who they go to for clarinet maintenance. Not just for help in diagnosing the cause of your pitch problem, but also because if it turns out to be a local problem with the throat notes, you may need someone experienced and competent to fix it.
Also, some mouthpieces can make the throat notes flat to the rest of the instrument because of the deeper baffle shape (the top of the inside area of the mouthpiece. The Series 13 Vandorens have that reputation. I don't know what the Gennusa mouthpieces are like these days, but this may be partly a mouthpiece issue. If any of your band mates has a Traditional (non-Series 13) Vandoren mouthpiece, which will have a shallower baffle, it might be worth trying that or having the other player try your Opus with his or her mouthpiece.
Karl
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Author: BGBG
Date: 2016-08-29 17:51
To kdk....I believe I was the one who posted something about this.
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Author: BGBG
Date: 2016-09-07 02:22
My tuner changes so fast I can hardly keep up with seeing it and trying to correct. Even if play rather slowly 66 beats in 4/4 it bounces back and forth. If I just play a single note I can keep the 'green light' on with my Korg CA-1, which I got mainly to see if I was playing on the correct note, but if I play even slowly I cant get it to play on a single note and hold each note on pitch unless I keep holding it and try to get it to "go green". Have no reason to believe the tuner is faulty and do not know how to tell anyway but it goes 20 cents or more to either side. Never ALWAYS a steady amount or consistent. If I concentrate on the tuner I cannot continue playing. Since I only play for myself and no groups or music friends or teachers I just live with it and the music sounds good enough because if close, say on the note, I cant really tell. But I just cannot get the cents exactly on pitch unless just play a continuous note like a G. Is something wrong or do I need to do anything to improve it? If so what are some suggestions?
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2016-09-07 04:21
BGBG wrote:
> Is something wrong or do I need to do anything
> to improve it? If so what are some suggestions?
Stop obsessing over it.
To begin with, when you play moving lines, it's rarely important to worry about whether each note is exactly on pitch - the notes go by too fast to matter. Even in an ensemble, one out-of-tune note in a moving passage will not be noticed nor do any damage.
Second, you shouldn't be watching a tuner while you're playing unless you're trying to check on something very specific. Maybe you need to slur up from some clarion note to an altissimo E and aren't sure if you're flat or not. That may well be worth checking. But during normal playing, leave the tuner off. You can't adjust pitches in a fast passage anyway.
Use a tuner to find out if your normal way of producing a given pitch - your normal, comfortable embouchure, tongue position, air support - is in tune and to see the result if you try to make an adjustment. This almost always involves sustained tones. Maybe you're concerned about a particular note in a line that's slow enough for tuning to matter? Play the line and hold the note without making any changes to the way you're playing and see what the tuner says about the pitch. These can be productive uses of a tuner. Playing music and staring with one eye at the tuner gauge isn't.
Some dedicated tuners have a switch that toggles between slow and quick reaction time. You use the slow one for more stable readings without all the wobble you're frustrated by. I don't often use a phone app for tuning, so I don't know how common a feature that is on apps. The Korg may have a fast/slow switch - I don't know the CA-1, but many of their chromatic tuners do have the speed toggle.
Karl
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Author: BGBG
Date: 2016-09-07 07:25
Thanks for the tip. Probably am worrying too much about it.
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Author: beejay
Date: 2016-09-07 14:19
This may not be for everyone, but I completely resolved flatness issue on both my Bflat and A instruments by using a string ligature, which is consistently accurate or even a few cents sharp. An old plastic Luyben mouthpiece is almost as good. I play flat, particularly in the lower register, with a metal Optimum mouthpiece. I have no idea why this should be so.
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