 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Higbinatr
Date: 2016-08-23 11:42
So I am going to be going to a university for music in september, and I am looking for a new ligature to replace my Rovner Mark III and Vandoren M/O.
I tried a Vandoren Optimum, and I did not really like it, and also didn't like a francois louis on my clarinet... I love it on saxophone...
I have been looking at the Vandoren Klassik, BG Super Revelation, and a Rovner Versa. Leaning towards the Klassik though. Just want some opinions on it
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Author: ned
Date: 2016-08-23 14:12
There's this one you can get for about 2000 bucks...I wouldn't recommend it though.
Sorry I'm not more help. As far as I'm concerned, a piece of string is adequate in the absence of one costing (say $4.95...tops).
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Author: Ed
Date: 2016-08-23 14:40
Why do you want to switch? What don't you like about the ones you have? It helps to determine what qualities you like or don't like.
Even so, the best way to know is to try them yourself. Many places will allow you to order a few for trial. All that you mention have their fans.
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2016-08-23 17:31
Only you can tell which one does it for you, no one else. Just try as many as you can. The same goes for mouthpieces, reeds, barrels, bells and clarinets.
ESP eddiesclarinet.com
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Author: MartyMagnini
Date: 2016-08-23 17:53
OK - I'll actually try to answer your question, instead of berate you for trying some new things. I like the Klassik very much. It was my go to ligature for a few years, until I switched to a Silverstein. I find that the Klassik gives a nice, dark sound (at least to the player), similar to a Rovner (but a bit better, IMO). Ed's advice is sound - what works for me may not work for you, but my favorites are the Silverstein, the BG duo, and the Klassik. I use the Silverstien almost all of the time, but use the others for different reasons as well. Hope that helps.
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Author: pewd
Date: 2016-08-23 18:00
Perhaps you should consult with your university Professor?
- Paul Dods
Dallas, Texas
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Author: Higbinatr
Date: 2016-08-23 22:43
My university professor just says it is a personal preference, so didn't get much answer there. What I didn't like about my Vandoren M/O is that it was a little bright for my taste, and on the Rovner Mark III, it was really reed picky articulation wise, and the tone sounds a little airy and stuffy.
I am looking mainly right now at the Ishimori, Vandoren Klassik, and a Robert Scott 4 dot brass ligature.
I am mainly looking for a nice dark tone that isn't stuffy...
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Author: Bob Bernardo
Date: 2016-08-24 03:38
Try several. I gave up and made my own, because most of the ligatures are too heavy, too much metal, too soft causing the mouthpiece and the reeds not to vibrate correctly. The material can deaden the sound, brighten the sound, choke off the vibrations and overtones. It also has a lot to do with your clarinet and the mouthpiece you are using.
The total cost of my ligature was about $2. Gutted out as much metal as I could and I used a few tiny pieces of shoe laces glued to the critical areas on the ligature with contact cement. The key is to get the reeds to speak freely in every register with a warm sound.
When testing reeds your thumb is often the best ligature so remember this when designing or picking out a ligature. The more weight the worse it will be; thus the reasons why the Germans often still use string. It doesn't get any lighter.
Designer of - Vintage 1940 Cicero Mouthpieces and the La Vecchia mouthpieces
Yamaha Artist 2015
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Author: ned
Date: 2016-08-24 04:55
Bob Bernardo wrote: ''...The total cost of my ligature was about $2....''
Case in point.
That expensive $xxx ligature you have just pulled out of the box may look nice and shiny, but in the end, it's YOU who will determine the ultimate quality of your sound.
There is a lot of bollocks written about clarinet equipment, of course I'm not suggesting that you attempt to play absolute junk, but the instrument has to operate correctly, and be in tune with itself (and ultimately, the piano).
These expensive add-ons contribute to maybe .001% of your sound, although to read some of the effusive reviews of this stuff, you'd be tempted to think the holy grail had been found.
Here's a link from 2014. It's about violins, but it's relevant to the discussion. The ear is a deceptive organ, it would appear.
http://www.thestrad.com/cpt-latests/blind-tested-soloists-unable-to-tell-stradivarius-violins-from-modern-instruments/
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Author: tylerleecutts
Date: 2016-08-24 07:08
I use a regular Bonade but can testify to many ligatures well under 100 bucks, including the Mark III.
Are you sure this tonal debacle is not a mouthpiece/Reed combination issue you could re-calibrate?
Wish you best of luck in finding your sound!
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2016-08-24 17:44
Try a luyben. Be sure not to over tighten.
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
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Author: clarinetguy ★2017
Date: 2016-08-24 17:48
Tyler, it's interesting to see your comment. A couple years ago I was in the market for a new ligature, and read the many comments that were posted over the years on this board. You, along with others, said many nice things about the Mark III, and that's what I bought. I have to thank you because I'm very happy with it. There are no articulation issues, and no problems with an airy or stuffy sound.
I prefer softer reeds in the 2.5 to 3.0 range. It's possible that harder reeds on some mouthpieces might respond better with a different ligature.
Having said this, it would be very wise to consider Tyler's remarks about a possible mouthpiece/reed combination issue. There are some excellent reeds on the market that just don't work well with some mouthpieces. Reed strength is another factor. I could share several personal stories, but I'll save that for another time. The bottom line - if there is a mouthpiece/reed combination issue, a $5,000 platinum ligature covered with gold isn't going to fix it.
For what it's worth, Stanley Drucker used a regular metal ligature with two screws (not inverted). His wife, Naomi, used a Rovner Dark.
http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/read.html?f=1&i=130923&t=130923
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2016-08-24 21:27
clarinetguy wrote:
> I prefer softer reeds in the 2.5 to 3.0 range. It's possible
> that harder reeds on some mouthpieces might respond better with
> a different ligature.
>
I've for a long time believed (and still do) that it's a good idea to carry two very different ligatures in order to match them to reeds. I always carry what I like to consider a "freeblowing" ligature (any ligature where the material would dampen vibrations, so a vandoren optimum, silverstein, bg with metal rails, Bonade, FL ultimate, Peter spriggs, etc) for a reed that the articulation feels "thick". Typically, a reed that feels slightly harder than ideal due to weather, or just not enough adjustment.
I also carry a ligature with material and design that I think would dampen vibrations (rovner mkIII or Dark, vandoren string, Velcro, rubber o-rings or a large rubber wedding ring, etc) for when a reed feels light.
The brands and models in my case change periodically, but I always carry a dampening ligature, and a freeblowing ligature (my descriptions, not theirs) at all times to match to reeds.
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
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Author: tylerleecutts
Date: 2016-08-25 02:24
I have the same strategy as Alexi, mostly to do with different rooms and what sound I'm looking for. I have a Bonade and a Vandoren leather in my case at all times for that reason.
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Author: Higbinatr
Date: 2016-08-25 11:47
That is what I sort of did, I carried around a Rovner Mark III and a Vandoren M/O. The thing is tho, the rovner seemed stuffy and never had super good articulation for me, just decent articulation. The Vandoren M/O seemed a little to bright and edgy for my taste, even though articulation was pretty decent.
I am going to try out Vandoren Klassik, Ishimori Satin Brass, Silver, and rose gold silver, and also a BG Super revelation and another shot on the optimum.
I am going to use these 6 ligatures on 3 mouthpieces: Vandoren B45, Vandoren 5RV Lyre, and D'addario X0. We will see what happens
I did sort of the same thing with tenor sax to find a ligature, I tested ligatures on 3 different jazz mouthpieces and ended up choosing a Francois Louis Ultimate ligature for my main and a Rovner Mark III as my backup.
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Author: Ed
Date: 2016-08-25 14:57
Quote:
I've for a long time believed (and still do) that it's a good idea to carry two very different ligatures in order to match them to reeds.
That is exactly why I carry two of everything to every gig ![[happy]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smiley12.gif)
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Author: jim lande
Date: 2016-08-26 05:52
I bought VELCRO Brand Double-Sided, Self Gripping Multi-Purpose Hook and Loop Tape, Reusable, 30-Feet x 1 1/2-Inch, Black on Amazon and trim pieces to look a little like a smile. Wrap the mpc with no reed in place, lift up, slip in reed, and slip back down. The velcro is long enough so that once wrapped, it is two layers except where the reed lies. Needless to say, with 30 feet I have plenty extra and have given away several ligatures. Some folks like them a lot, others not at all,
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Author: Bob Bernardo
Date: 2016-08-26 07:27
Jim, does the reed still stay tight enough, using the Velcro? Interesting and clever idea!
Several years ago a pro said I wouldn't be able to tell the difference between ligatures, so I put on a blindfold. I picked mine every time. So ligatures are dear to your heart.
There are reasons why the Bonade reverse ligature was used 30 years ago by so many pros and why it's still such a very popular favorite. But like anything we can go overboard, actually almost crazy, worrying about finding the perfect ligature. If you are hunting for the perfect ligature start with the Bonade as a base mark or a starting point and go from there. A new one is only around $25. Play on it for a bit and try others from fellow band members, orchestra members, and see if the other models work better or worse. I still have about 5 Bonade's floating around the house, well used to the point that the chrome is wearing off and they remain a top quality ligature, however times are changing and there are so many ligatures available now it is surely worth looking around. With one of the Bonade's I glued on thin pieces of cork along the rails, instead of having the metal rails touching the reeds. It worked very well. So it's also a good ligature to experiment on.
Designer of - Vintage 1940 Cicero Mouthpieces and the La Vecchia mouthpieces
Yamaha Artist 2015
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Author: TomS
Date: 2016-08-27 20:11
Rubber O-rings.
I passed some out a while back and I find them still in use with friends.
Free blowing and more volume.
For a few bucks you can buy several different sizes and experiment.
Tom
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Author: ned
Date: 2016-08-28 06:36
Some good and worthwhile suggestions here - O rings, string and etc...can't be any worse (and maybe a good deal better) than the gold plated, diamond studded gadgets that get hawked to gullible musicians.
I intend to give the O rings a go actually - yep - fair dinkum mate....and...
I wonder if Bob Bernardo would be able to post a picture of his ''$2'' rig? This sounds quite interesting, as well.
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Author: WhitePlainsDave
Date: 2016-08-28 08:22
This thread, particularly its discussion of how people may have a favorite ligature, but recognize the possibility that a more optimal (no pun to Vandoren's wares) situation can arise by gigging with more than one lig to accommodate for changes in play due to a reed, mouthpiece, humidity, and all else--may be better--even if those multiple ligs are each considered subordinate to the "single besty lig approach," has me ask the following.
Examining our world from this approach, are there particular ligs we feel are superior to changing from bright to dampening by adjusting them, like the Vandoren Optimum's pressure plates, that shine in their ability to accommodate varied play, if not have the greatest chance to maximize it as our one single go to lig?
Secondly, OP, I'm not sure you discussed (fully) what about your current choices in lig are having you look elsewhere. This may be important in deciding IF to switch ligs, and what to switch to.
Few of us remain with a lig. We switch, only to find time a component in our happiness and switch again, seeking to not lose what's good about the status quo, only to change what's bad.
Might the problem reside within? Should we look to ourselves for improvement? Do limited funds and time suggest the monies go elsewhere--especially in areas of study shown to effect improvement? What do I, (or any of us think we know about ligs) that Drucker, whose never changed his lig (and not because he raves about it like his Landelais mouthpiece) misses out on?
Am I ignorant? Quite possibly. Do people buy ligs in part because admitting fault lying within is a hard sell? Quite possibly. Do people buy ligs in part because they don't have, but seek Drucker's virtuosity, that in possession of same, they too would worry less about ligs?
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Author: Richie
Date: 2016-08-29 00:42
Go to as many stores and try as many as you can. Remember, a ligature will make some difference, but not as much as a barrel or mouthpiece can.
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