 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: TAMMY
Date: 2001-05-22 21:26
I was wondering... you know how people audition for stuff like first chair in band or orchestra
or audition for all state or all county NYSSMA allstate whatever.. stuff like that.
do they really tell anything about your skill or talent?
My grandfather's cousin..he was the principal trumpet for the boston symphony and he's played with chicago and a few others internationally before. Well, he hasn't always done well in auditions. He was rejected from all the allstate and all county type bands when he was young. After college, he was rejected from MANY orchestras that he auditioned for like the Kansas City, Thompsonville Adult Orchestra, Chestnut Valley, and the Barrington symphony. But one day he got lucky. he auditioned for the BSO, thinking that he'd be rejected and he got in! and he's been pretty famous since then, playing internationally.
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Author: ron b
Date: 2001-05-22 22:45
Tammy;
I'm sure all of us who've, at one time or another, tried to earn a living in the music business and some who've looked at it as a future possibility have pondered your question.
Sorta depends on a lotta different things, huh ? ...like who's doing the hiring, what/who they're looking for at the time, personalities and... things like that. Right place at the right time, uhh... maybe they were looking for a certain kind of smile or whatever... who knows? You play whatever they ask you to, the best you can and ... :
In other words, in my jaded opinion, auditions are - as much as they're not supposed to be - very much subjective affairs. How many musicians do you know, or have heard or read about, besides your grampa's cousin, who struggled for years before they got a 'break'. Or, for that matter, never got a break.
I met a guy once... this is a true account. Playing a summer gig in a little town in the foothills of central California. He quietly asked if he might sit in with our little trio. That was long before AIDS and other things that today scare the daylights out of us. He proceeded to play the ass end outta my tenor sax ! I knew instantaneousy, as I sat at the end of the bar astonished, I was in the presence of greatness :| I found out he'd played with big name big bands - Woody Herman, etc. you know, well known big time stuff, touring the world and all that. I asked him what he was doing for a living then. He and his wife were following the crops, presently picking peaches. WHY? I asked, sure there must be more to his story than that. He said, no, they preferred a simple, uncomplicated lifestyle to the cut-throat music business where people die early from ulcers and heart attacks often brought on by self abusive indulgences trying to relieve the stress of it. They didn't want to go that route.
He didn't WANT my job. He preferred to enjoy life.
- ron b -
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Author: Daniel Bouwmeester
Date: 2001-05-23 00:32
Tammy,
I agree with Ron about what he said about the fact that auditions are subjective, and about the complexity of show business.
Auditions and competitions are always criticized.. often hearing things such as (how can someone judge art ?), or (he got the first prize because his teacher is in the jury) or (the piano screwed me up) (the warming up facilities are not adequate) (the piano is out of tune)... Auditions and competition (they are the same basically)... are here to give you a certain idea of your technicall ability, are here to motivate you to work, and to tell you at what level you are compared to others.
Of course all this is quite vague, because results of these events depend on the jury. Most of the members of the jury have a sterotype clarinetist or school in their minds (like perhaps Sabine Meyer and the german school), and compare you to this stereotype.... Very often it's stupid things that make you win or loose.
ex1 :
You are a british player playing soft reeds. Your oponent is a german player playing hard reeds. Your judge likes a lot Sabine Meyer.
You play very musically, you've worked a lot on your tone, phrasing, tuning.. good technique.... YOur pianist screws up the tempos.
Your oponent plays with a nice tone, good technique has got a very good pianist, with whom he's worked a lot but he's as musicall as a brick.
Guess who's gonna win ?
The musical world turns around influential people that set standards..... if you are out of these standards or don't know these people you can forget about your carreer.
In the amateur world... auditions (like let's stay to all state) are usefull to set a technicall and musicall standard. that's about it.
I find auditions and competitions usefull because they make me work... and because of the fame you get when you win.
And about the professional music life.... Ron is right.... it's a real mafia ! YOu're far better of becomming a farmer than a musician.
That's all for now...
Happy clarinetting
DAn
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Author: Meri
Date: 2001-05-23 01:38
Auditions, done well, can be meaningful. But from my experience, they are meaningless.
Two cases from my own experience:
1. Music camp.
In the ensemble that I was in, I was sitting next to the principal player. My audition, which I did well, consisted of a moderately-difficult etude and three scales from the list of scales given, which I did three of the "harder" ones. The principal player played a second from her (rather easy) band part, and did three easier scales. Judging from her sound and attitude, she should never have been principal. She didn't practice her parts at all the entire time at camp, and the concert didn't go that well.
2. First year of orchestra.
Played a grade 8 Royal Conservatory piece, and four scales. My chair: Second Clarinet. Principal player's audition: band part, easy scales, poor tone, hardly practiced, and if she did, not well. So bad that around November the other players in the wind section complained to the conductor, which resulted in her getting removed from orchestra and replaced with someone far better.
However, I am happier playing second or third clarinet than first--as long as those on the first part do their job well.
Meri
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2001-05-23 01:47
Skill & talent are an important part of being an orchestral player - but they're not everything. Work habits, general getting along with people, able to take direction well (even if the directions are wrong...), personality, etc. are other important pieces. Which is why many orchestral positions are probationary.
I don't see the music business being any more cutthroat than any other - there's just fewer people around, so we tend to remember who did what for a long time.
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Author: Kim
Date: 2001-05-23 03:35
I don't think that auditions and competition mean much. I am a college music major and perform for my peers and professors regularly. It wasn't until I became motivated and had a higher level of self-esteem that I played like I was the best thing that happened to the university. (I'm not, but hey.)
The more bad auditions and competitions we have, the more we will feel bad about ourselves and will want to do better because we are capable of it. For the conducting class mid-term this past semester, the band had to sight-read Second Suite in F. It is reasonably easy for college students. I screwed it up so badly and became so angry at myself. It wasn't until then that I snapped into shape and played to my full potential. I even played better than the 1st chair in wind ensemble. I made her jealous.
Anyway, it is what we think of ourselves, NOT what the judges think of YOU. You could be having a bad day, or you could have a bad reed, or not even feel well. Whatever the scenario, keep on working and you will reach the highest level of playing that you want!
Good luck and have fun,
Kim
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Author: Gene Wie
Date: 2001-05-23 09:29
I think what it all really boils down to is whether the people sitting in front after an audition live up to their placement. It's an honor to play with good musicians, wherever the place.
Think about this for a moment: a panel selecting a clarinetist for a particular orchestra, based on the regional likes and dislikes of the instrument's sound/style characterustucs, is obviously going to swing towards a player that does that "style" the best. Whether that person is the best *musician* of all who audition is another debate altogether. Generally, when one goes looking for a job, do what the powers-that-be demand.
Besides, once you've established yourself (being able to play and run with the "standards") you can go ahead and begin introducing your own individual concepts/styles into the musical collective. =)
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Author: kaosangel
Date: 2001-05-23 12:35
Oops sorry for that. First post in a long time and I accidently hit the enter button...
Newayz...
If you think about it, auditions are never judged objectively. There is no standard. Everyone has a different standard. Personally, auditions make me nervous but it's not going to kill me if I have a bad one..
kaosAngel
_________
On to Japan.
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Author: Sarah
Date: 2001-05-23 13:36
Well, I have the same point of views as many of you but I'm in high school, lol. I am 2nd Clarinet in high school and I got problems with not the chair above me but below me. I play alot of 2nd music with the 3rd chair Clarinet. But the 4th chair has clearly practiced really hard and has excellent tone quality. I've talked to the instructor about this and he said that auditions for chairs doesn't really mean much, just you have a place and what music you play. so now i'm stuck with a 3rd chair clarinet that can't play worth anything and a wonderful 4th chair :-) That's ok though, because now 3rd music sound wonderful *sigh* i was there once, lol.
Sarah
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Author: Ed
Date: 2001-05-23 15:51
Keep in mind that an audition is much like a snapshot of a particular moment.It does not necessarily give a complete view.
Ed
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Author: Kim
Date: 2001-05-23 16:15
I thought about this(4th chair better than higher positions). Last year I had a fabulous jury and expected to be in the top positions. I wasn't and was seated third clarinet. I was upset, but sometimes directors place better players in lower positions because of ability and they know they will hear the parts from those players. It also made me angry enough that I improved to the point that I was better than the first chair and wound up making her jealous.
Now, that my school year is over(college), I no longer care where I am seated because all the parts of the section are equally important. Personally, I'd rather have the harmony than the melody because I don't like to follow. I guess it all depends on personal preference.
Good luck and have fun,
Kim
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Author: Sarah
Date: 2001-05-23 22:49
You have a great point Kim. When I was 5th chair I was the only one that would play 3rd music all the time and so I kind of was by myself. Lower chairs really mean nothing except that you get a different part than others :-)
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Author: Bob R
Date: 2001-05-30 19:13
Now I remeber why i didn't pursue a full-time career in music. After reading all the posts, I remeber all the auditions I played in while I was in High School and College. It was always the same. Cut Throat, take no prisoners, show no mercy. Everytime I went to Allstate or District competitions I would always be up against the same people.
I personally think the common chairing system sucks. You really need strong people on every part. The problem most bands run into is being "top heavy" Why ? Because you have all your strongest players in each section on 1st part. I was in a district band once where the conductor had first part and third part players switch music. Yeah ! Thats right ! Imagine the horror when the principle clarinet player had to play 3rd part !
At the University level, I played in a symphonic band where I just had an off day on the day of the audition. I spent the rest of semester playing 3rd part. I know as a mature person it should bother me, but it made band practice boring. Without the challenges of playing harder 1st part music, I quickly got bored and my playing was started to get sloppy.
For what its worth...auditions never tell the whole story.
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