 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2011-06-11 13:21
Just wondering what terms are used in your part of the world for the same items or techniques - talking clarinets (and other instruments here).
In the UK, a 'crook' is the metal part of an instrument that fits into the top to which the mouthpiece or reed is fitted to bring it into a comfortable position for the player and is applied to both single and double reed instruments.
As far as I'm aware, in US terminology it's called the 'neck' on single reed instruments (larger clarinets and saxes) and 'bocal' on double reed instruments (oboe d'amore down to contrabassoon).
Then we have 'pullthrough' which is the same as 'swab' (a piece of cloth attached to a weighted string or tape used to dry the bore with - as opposed to 'mops' which are the long brushes with handles).
'Swage' is the same as 'swedge' (as in swaging/swedging pliers for stretching key barrels).
I didn't realise 'solder' and 'soldering' is pronounced differently - in the UK it's phonetic (soul'-der/soul'-der-ing) but watching a Canadian/US episode of 'How It's Made' (flutes and trombones) the narrator says 'sodder' or 'soddering' (whereas on the UK edition the narrator has a Northern accent).
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: RJShaw0
Date: 2011-06-11 14:04
From what I use and hear used in Australia, it's crook for bassoonists and some bass clarinettists. I've never heard anyone call the crook a bocal, only read that one in books.
On the topic of swabs, I either call it a pullthrough or use the low brow 'spit rag'.
I'd associate the word 'swab' with a 'mop', though maybe that is just me. (?)
RJS
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Author: kdk
Date: 2011-06-11 14:16
My experience from the U.S. is the same as yours in the items you mention. I don't remember seeing any other terms than "bell" and "barrel" and "reed" for those parts.
The most obvious difference in terms between U.S. and U.K. has, to me, always been the names given to rhythmic values. I don't know where crotchet and quaver and minim came from initially, but it always confuses the issue more for me that a "quarter-note" isn't the same as a "quaver," which is our eighth-note. I once taught an exchange student from Wales who had been taught with crotchets and minims and we had some funny (humorous, not strange) exchanges at times as we tried to translate to and from each other's set of familiar note names (not to mention our use of alphabetic pitch names compared to the general European practice, it seems, of using solfege syllables).
Karl
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2011-06-11 14:37
Crotchets, minims, quavers are all from the old terms from the times when note values were what look like long notes to us. Crotchet (so I'm told) is hook-shaped, quavers are fast (as in 'quiver') and minim is a minimum length note.
I can never remember the name minim when I need to, so make sign language type hand gestures to represent it (left index finger forming the stem and the right thumb and index finger to form the hollow note head) while saying 'one of these'.
What gets funny when using the quarter note/eighth note/16th note way is when talking breves - a double whole note. Then again, with the crotchets/quavers way it gets funny when talking 32nd notes/64th notes - demisemiquavers (3 tails) and hemidemisemiquavers (4 tails - and a 128th note with 5 tails is a semihemidemisemiquaver!).
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2011-06-11 14:54
In the U.S.:
The metal piece that goes between the mouthpiece and the top of the upper joint on an alto or bass clarinet is called the neck. It's the equivalent of a soprano clarinet barrel.
The water-absorbing item that's pulled through the bore is universally called a swab.
The "L" sound is dropped in all forms of solder -- always "sodder."
Lengthening a key is called swedging, pronounced with an "eh" vowel, not "ay." It's an unusual enough word that most people don't know what it means anyway.
Everyone is confused by crotchets, minims, hemidemisemiquavers and so on. It's as bad as converting crowns, shillings, farthings, and guineas. And why is our longest note, a whole note, called a semibreve (which means "half of short")? And even over there, I doubt that even advanced players know about longas and maximas, let alone use them.
Of course we stick to pounds, pints and miles rather than converting to God's metric system.
And a boot is the trunk, a lift is an elevator and a clarionette is a clarinet.
Ken Shaw
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2011-06-11 14:55
If you have a Haynes Car or Motorbike (Motorcycle? There we go ...) repair manual, there's a BE:AE thesaurus in the front...a full page.
--
Ben
Post Edited (2011-06-11 14:56)
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2011-06-11 17:45
I once played with a german clarinetist who would talk about tuning to H. I had no idea at the time what that meant.
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
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Author: Wes
Date: 2011-06-11 19:18
Once, I played in an orchestra where there was a handwritten part for clarinet in Bb, which had been mistakenly transposed by a player from the printed part for clarinet in B(German Bb). To play from it, one would have had to transpose while playing.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2011-06-11 20:07
While out in Germany I asked our hosts if they could understand the leader (he read out a speech in German but he wasn't a German speaker).
They thought I meant if they understood the Lieder - our singer happened to sing 'My Funny Valentine' in German.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: clarinetguy ★2017
Date: 2011-06-11 20:23
This term describes something that no clarinet player wants to see. I noticed on the Howarth site that "split" is the word used in the UK to describe a crack.
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Author: Buster
Date: 2011-06-11 20:27
For those across the pond, the first time I heard someone use the term crochet, I got an entirely different image than what was intended.
Even more difficult is transferring our slightly different terminology when teaching in a foreign language. I was teaching in Spanish and let me tell you it can get very confusing. They use some Queens English terms (yes I am acknowledging your superiority of language, but I'll never spell it colour), some American terms and some from Spanish. Mouthpiece is always boquilla. Embochure is always embocadura. Ligature is usually abrazadera but sometimes embocadura ?!? Note values. Whole note is redondo (trans. rounded, more or less). Half note is blanco (trans. white). Quarter note-negro (black). 8th note- corcher. 16th- semi-corcher or seisillo. 32nd- treinta y dosavo etc... And they always use solfeg names for notes instead of a b c etc.... so trying to explain the difference between fixed do and moveable do is virtually impossible. And then coming up with metaphors and visual images ughhh...
Again for the Brits: I love Top Gear but it's a trunk, not a boot. It's a hood not a bonnet. It's a sedan not a saloon. and I am the Stig
-JH
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2011-06-11 21:24
Toneholes are undercut - key barrels (or hinge tubes) are fraised so they fit between pillars.
And a station wagon is called an estate over here and fenders are called wings. I used to like Top Gear before it became the jeremy clarkson egotist showcase.
I did laugh when I saw on German eBay an S-Klarinette listed instead of an Es-Klarinette. I think Germans call crooks/necks/bocals S-Bogen even if they're not S shaped.
So what do Russians call something resembling an S bend considering the Cyrillic S looks like our C?
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: davyd
Date: 2011-06-12 04:10
The part of the clarinet that the mouthpiece fits into is known over here as the 'barrel", but I understand it's the 'socket' over yonder.
One of my colleagues refers to brass instrument 'mutes' as 'plugs'; no idea why.
One time, it took me a while to figure out that when someone referred to the 'interval' at a concert, he meant the 'intermission'.
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2011-06-12 05:58
The terms here for your examples are Neck and Swab, the Hebrew words for them.
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Author: Bassie
Date: 2011-06-12 07:47
It's a Cor Anglais over here, not an English Horn. And a clarinet is never a 'horn' of any kind.
I heard that Cor Anglais is a corruption of 'Angel's Horn' - you know, long and thin like they play in old, old illustrations. And presumably English Horn is a re-corruption of that.
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2011-06-12 08:20
> I did laugh when I saw on German eBay an S-Klarinette listed instead of an
> Es-Klarinette. I think Germans call crooks/necks/bocals S-Bogen even if
> they're not S shaped.
If it's the double-reed (or bass clarinet) c/n/bs, I can see how they got their name, but on saxes they use the same term.
I had a fit of laughter when I first heard that many American men are wearing suspenders.
--
Ben
Post Edited (2011-06-12 08:21)
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Author: skygardener
Date: 2011-06-12 10:04
Musical terms in Japanese are very difficult. It's a mixture of German, French, English, Italian and Japanese. Further, you can't just use the French or German word haphazardly and assume that the other person will know what it is. Some things will always use the French word and some will always use the English, or German, etc.- they are not interchangeable.
When a foreign word is used, the word will be which ever word fits most easily into Japanese pronunciation is used. For example, very few people know the word "harpsichord", Japanese uses "cembalo" for that instrument.
Terms for clarinet parts are generally derived from English, however the Eb clarinet is an "Es" clarinet and the Bb a "B".
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Author: Barry Vincent
Date: 2011-06-12 12:22
And does a Bass instrument play the Base of the Harmony ?
And the Alto Clarinet in F is called a Basset 'Horn'
Does Basset mean 'little' Bass or is it named after the Basset Hound ?
Skyfacer
Post Edited (2011-06-12 22:04)
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2011-06-12 13:00
Alto flutes were for a time called bass flutes (see instrumentation in Holst's 'The Planets') but have been renamed alto flute to free up the term 'bass flute' for what is in effect the tenor flute in C (and the bass oboe ought to really be called the tenor oboe).
Barrels are called barrels here - I thought they were called 'sockets' in the US!
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Bassie
Date: 2011-06-12 13:47
Ken -
> why is our longest note, a whole note, called a semibreve (which means "half of short")?
[stop me if y'all know all this already]
Well because there's an eight beat note called the Breve, of course. Or used to be. Big round thing with a bar each end. This goes back to monks chanting plainsong, when that WAS a short note ;D
See, the 'four beats = whole note' thing never made sense to me. :D
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2011-06-12 14:02
The Lunga looks like a breve but it has a stem (and is twice as long as a breve).
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: mrn
Date: 2011-06-12 19:20
Another confusing but amusing little divide in the terminology for musical notes is the English/French one.
The English "crotchet" and the French "croche" both come from the French word for "hook," but it seems that there is some disagreement about which end of the note is the "hook." The French "croche" is what we in the U.S. would call an eighth note (so the "flag" is what resembles a hook), while the English "crotchet" is a quarter note (so the "head" of the note is hook-like).
The U.S. terminology for note durations is the same as the Germans use, so I assume we adopted our terminology from them.
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Author: Bassie
Date: 2011-06-12 20:02
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Telemann_Gulliver_Suite.jpg
That's nuts! Thanks, Ken!
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Author: blazian
Date: 2016-08-03 09:28
Bassie,
Is it not that Cor Anglais was originally named the "cor anglé" (angled horn) but misheard as "Anglais"?
- Martin
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Author: donald
Date: 2016-08-03 10:23
When I lived in the US other musicians would act mystified when I referred to the "cor" (Cor Anglais), they would ask me to say "hemidemisemiquaver" for comic effect....
But the real clanger was on the way to a gig when I asked if we would park in the "car-park-building", which was of course a "parking-garage"
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Author: ned
Date: 2016-08-03 12:54
In Australia we call our instrument a clarinet
In America, I think you call it a clara-net, or in some locations eclair-a-net. ![[tongue]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smilie6.gif)
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Author: MichaelW
Date: 2016-08-03 14:30
In our German forum we just had a similar discussion. I quote my résumé:
Deutsch... B
Niederländisch... Bes
Schwedisch... Bess
Französisch... si bémol
Italienisch... si bemolle
GB, US... biflätt
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Author: idahofats
Date: 2016-08-04 02:18
In reply to Chris P's query regarding what term Russians use for a crook or neck, I ran across "sheika" for a bass clarinet neck, and "sheya" for the neck of a saxophone. The former is a diminutive of the latter, and may imply a small or delicate neck, or especially a bird's neck. I didn't find "gusinaya sheika"/gooseneck, but it may be used.
To me, the word for mouthpiece is amusing, since the Russian language borrowed it directly from German (Mundstueck)..."mundshtuk." Such borrowings were common during the nineteenth century.
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