 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: ClarinetRobt
Date: 2016-07-15 20:55
Background:
Last year during a lot of playing outside, I bought some Signature Legere (Standard Issue) reeds for 'extreme conditions' playing. They did the job, consistent, and I never had to worry about reeds during hot/hotter/wet/soaking playing conditions in Texas. But I never felt more than "ehh" with the product. There was always something lacking (response, feel) with them.
(I'm using my bullet proof Ridenour Lyrique Libertas outside, Brad Behn Vintage Rod Rubber, and Ishimori Silver)
This year:
First rehearsal, threw on a Signature Legere and my first thought was "I can't handle playing this junk." I put on a Leuthner and went about my business.
Later online, I was reading about the new oboe reed. I hope the product is as brilliant as it seems. It was then I saw the new European spec Legere with a wider tip, shorter vamp.
For me, the reeds were amazing. The 100% deliver as advertised...did everything I asked it to. Certainly as good as any terrific, well balanced reed works.
Kudos Legere! Hope other have similar success!
~Robt L Schwebel
Mthpc: Behn Vintage
Lig: Ishimori, Behn Delrin
Reed: Legere French Cut 3.75/4, Behn Brio 4
Horns: Uebel Superior (Bb,A), Ridenour Lyrique, Buffet R13 (Eb)
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Author: WhitePlainsDave
Date: 2016-07-15 21:35
Robert..i've been on fence about buying one (a Euro cut Legere that is).
Reviews here were mixed--as I suppose is the case for any product. And I've tried my share of Legere and Forestone's with the same "ehh" response you cite, even as each was marketing as the next greatest thing after "sliced bread" by its creators.
Could you share with greater detail your impressions of the Euro...like for instance..and a scale of 1 to 10 where would you place the regular Signature Legere and where would you place the Euro?
Still more, how does the Euro compare to quality cane? Would you contemplate abandoning cane at this point?
Thanks.
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Author: maxopf
Date: 2016-07-15 22:29
I just received a couple of European cut reeds in the mail.
The size chart online isn't quite right. It would have you think that a 3.5 is the equivalent of a V12 4, but it's much softer. The 3.75 was on the soft end of a 4; I think a 4 would have been better.
They're slightly too wide for the mouthpieces I own (Vandoren, Fobes), but they still seem to work anyways. The sound isn't half bad, actually, but they lack some focus in the lower register, especially at piano.
My main complaint is that they played very flat on the two mouthpieces I tried them with. I didn't check how much with a tuner, but it was enough to immediately hear the difference in pitch. There's no way I could play them in an ensemble. The M15 allowed for slightly higher pitch than the Fobes, but not by much. A local professional clarinetist thought this might have to do with how much shorter the vamp is than, say, a V12, and suggested that a B45 might work better. I don't have one to try, though.
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Author: tucker ★2017
Date: 2016-07-16 01:24
They don't make the European cut for bass horns, but I love the Signature reeds. I contacted Legere and they have no plans at this time to make a European cut for basses. I have noticed, however, they are not consistent. Not as bad as cane reeds but they are not "identical". I've ordered several from Amazon and sent most back for exchanges, which they will gladly do. I figure if I'm paying close to $30 for a reed, it should hit the sweet spot right out of the box.
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Author: jthole
Date: 2016-07-16 05:13
There was a long thread on the European Cut reeds here not too long ago.
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Author: WhitePlainsDave
Date: 2016-07-16 19:21
Max--might you be able to share the degree of flatness you report in something I can relate to better, like acoustical cents difference?
I don't know if you used a tuner, and if you did, whether it furnishes such diagnostics--but I'm curious
Thanks.....
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Author: maxopf
Date: 2016-07-16 22:49
Just tested it with a tuner. Just for reference, I was using a Buffet R13 Prestige A clarinet, a Clark Fobes grenadilla 66mm barrel, a Clark Fobes San Francisco CF mouthpiece, and a standard silver Bonade ligature. The effect is especially noticeable in the short tube notes, so I tested with an open G.
The open G was in tune, or maybe 1-2c sharp, with a newer V12 size 4. With the European size 3.75, and maintaining the same embouchure, the open G was about 20c flat. I could lip it up to be almost in tune, but I was adding much more jaw/lip pressure than I'm comfortable with.
I didn't bother to even check it with a tuner initially, since I could instantly tell it was way too flat. The whole scale of the instrument was wrong, my arpeggios sounded out of tune. Again, perhaps with a different mouthpiece (with a shorter lay and wider rails?) and possibly a harder reed, things might be more in tune.
Post Edited (2016-07-16 23:45)
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2016-07-16 23:32
From my limited experience with the CF and the Legere Euro Signatures, I think the #3.75 may be a little too soft for the facing. You may get better intonation from a #4. I have found that the flatness I've run into with Legeres in general is most problematic above D6. To play those notes in tune, I need to use my closest-tipped mouthpiece (a Gigliotti P, tip .98mm with a 19 mm curve) with a #4.25 Euro.
I'm wondering, though, (a) whether the 67 mm barrel was original with the R13 Prestige and (b) whether of not you're getting the same result with your Bb clarinet with its original barrel and the CF. I didn't think R13 As (or Bbs) were shipped with 67 mm barrels.
Karl
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Author: maxopf
Date: 2016-07-16 23:47
My bad — the A barrel was 66mm. I edited my post. I was thinking of my Bb barrel, which is 67mm. Both are Clark Fobes grenadilla barrels, not original to the Prestiges.
Yes, the 3.75 is too soft, I just didn't order anything harder since the strength chart made it seem like it would be hard enough. If I had time, I'd order a 4, 4.25, and 4.5 to try, but I'm leaving for Idyllwild today.
However I don't think an equivalent V12 (3.5-3.5+) would play this flat. Must be a characteristic of softer synthetic reeds.
I didn't check the intonation on my Bb clarinet with a tuner (running out the door at the moment), but it certainly sounded just as flat when I tried it on my Bb the other day.
Post Edited (2016-07-16 23:49)
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Author: WhitePlainsDave
Date: 2016-07-17 04:05
I don't recall the original Signature Bb clarinet reed being wider than any of my mouthpieces rails--including the Vandoren M15 mouthpiece Max reports trying.
Might someone be able to confirm that the European Signature reed is in fact wider than its original non-European Signature counterpart as Max reports?
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2016-07-17 04:45
WhitePlainsDave wrote:
> Might someone be able to confirm that the European Signature
> reed is in fact wider than its original non-European Signature
> counterpart as Max reports?
Yes, it's wider.
Karl
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Author: maxopf
Date: 2016-07-17 04:59
Yes, the original Signature has more of a standard width, the European signature is wider. It's modeled on a soprano sax reed, so it's wider and has a shorter vamp.
Speaking of the original Signature, I don't remember having pitch problems when I tried it a few months ago. The sizes I tried were more appropriate for my mouthpiece though. (3.75-4)
Post Edited (2016-07-17 05:04)
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Author: ClarinetRobt
Date: 2016-07-18 19:22
I have not noticed any pitch problems, actually quite the opposite (discounting the flat oboe beside me). A slightly elevated 3.5 Euro Spec works perfectly for me (as well as the 3.75) on Brad Behn's more open vintage (rod rubber) mouthpiece.
The original Sigature Legere seem 'stuffy'. Response is delayed and I always feel like "I can't go for it". The reed was always fighting back. Rating of 5-6 on a 1-10. The Euro Spec is freer blowing (like it's better balanced)...any dynamic, any articulation..it delivers. Rating of 8-9.
Finally with a tuner, no intonation problems (beyond normal clarinet idiosyncrasies). On a spot on Open G, the rest of the horn falls into place, either with my Ridenour Libertas or Buffet Prestige Bb.
Here's what Brad Behn said to me, "Yes those new Legere's are a significant improvement. I too like them. I still like cane but the Legere's are getting daily use, and I have played them on several outdoor concerts as well. Who knows, I think it likely I will try them in the hall in the fall once the season starts...I may end up using them on stage from time to time as well."
I completely concur. I'm going to still use cane (Leuthner) regularly, but I always have a great backup if things go down hill.
~Robt L Schwebel
Mthpc: Behn Vintage
Lig: Ishimori, Behn Delrin
Reed: Legere French Cut 3.75/4, Behn Brio 4
Horns: Uebel Superior (Bb,A), Ridenour Lyrique, Buffet R13 (Eb)
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2016-07-18 20:53
I would also for all interested in Legere to try the German cut reeds. The strength and resistance curve (best way I can describe it) is much closer to cane than any other Legere. They are more slender than a typical Boehm facing but not as much NARROWER as the Euros are WIDER (which I find simply unusable).
............Paul Aviles
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2016-07-19 03:31
Paul, I recently bought a German Legere, strength #3.75. I was amazed to find it's unplayably hard on my 1.01 tip/17 curve mouthpiece. I mean I can't get anything more than rushing air with a little pitch in it. What strength are you using on what type of mouthpiece? Or, maybe I should ask instead, what strength do you think should work on a French-style mouthpiece with the close/medium facing I've described?
Karl
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2016-07-19 03:55
Ok, it's a little difficult for me to say for sure what is best on Boehm since I have spent the last eight months exclusively playing German mouthpieces with the German Legere on my CSG. The standard prescribed strength of reed for a VERY closed mouthpiece (within Germany) is 2 1/2. I initially started this way with Vandoren White Masters but very eagerly moved to an experiment with the Legere reed since so many top German players have such great success with them.
I finally settled on strength 3 Legere German cut on Wurlitzer M3+ mouthpieces (which probably doesn't mean much to most of you). I have been very slow to experiment further (though I have lots of possible combinations at my fingertips) but recently tried one of the #3 Legere German cut reeds on my Vandoren Masters CL4 (just a little more open than the M13). It was quite usable but closer to what you described in terms of being a bit too strong......given what I have gotten used to.
NOW: Fast forward to this afternoon - I have been eagerly awaiting the arrival of a bunch of Legere 2 3/4 strength German cut reed to try on the Vandoren CL4.
THEY ARE FRIGGIN' AMAZING!!!!! Of course this is within the context of my last eight months of playing on the softer reed combination and getting used to the idea of "just blowing" more than "working." I had previously been a #4 Vandoren Rue Lepic guy on CL4, M13, ESM MCK1 family of facings (all pretty close to one another).
So with a bit of trepidation I throw a wholehearted recommendation to the German Legere in the 2 3/4 strength for closed faced Boehm mouthpieces. To get the best results you must be willing to not "work the reed" a lot (ie. BITE). But the results are truly worthwhile. If you need to bump up in strength from there, I would certainly recommend NOT going any further than a 3 or 3 1/4 at the very most.
...................Paul Aviles
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Author: xiao yu
Date: 2016-07-19 05:24
Actually this euro cut reed is the same size as soprano sax reeds，I have been told this reed is design for soprano sax at the beginning，but legere found it was better on clarinet .
And yes ,this cut is amazing, even soft size have no plastic sound as classic cut or signature cut.
=======================
Kenny clarinet studio from China.
Lyrique libertas, ridenour hw mp,legere euro cut reeds.
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2016-07-19 18:38
Euro is same width as Soprano, but not the same size at all. Soprano Sax reed is much shorter. Think Mitchel Lurie Reed compared to a Reserve. And there is also a big difference between the two.
Not commenting on if it is amazing, good, etc, just on it's "size".
Maybe someday will.........who knows
http://www.SkypeClarinetLessons.com
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