 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: mmatisoff
Date: 2016-07-08 04:10
I heard back from Vandoren yesterday regarding my M15 mouthpiece and Rue 56 3.5+ reed setup. Turns out, my setup was correct. The 56s and V21 have rounder tips than other reeds. I just needed to tweak my reed a little more. My 56s work well. I finally was able to get my first V21 4.5 reed balanced. Now it sings. It was the most enjoyable practice session I've had in a while. My wife (who is a fine artist) and I were talking this evening about serendipitous moments. This was one of them.
I do have one question. I play on a Leblanc Opus using a Leblanc barrel. I'm getting use to the resistance issue. Not bothering me much these days. When I begin practicing, I'm typically very flat. After I warm up with long tones and scales, the notes become sharper, though still a little flat. When I took off the bell this evening, it was spot on.
Would a shorter barrel (if there is one) help? Or... is it just my embouchure still needs work?
Tx M
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Author: kdk
Date: 2016-07-08 04:18
Is it the original barrel or a replacement? What length is it? I don't remember if you mentioned in another thread - is the M15 a Series 13 or a Traditional? Series 13 mouthpieces are designed to play a little flatter than the Traditional series.
The best way to find out if a shorter barrel will help is to try one. But keep in mind that the pitch is a function of total volume, not simply length. So shorter will make the pitch come up a little *if* the bore is basically the same.
Karl
Post Edited (2016-07-08 07:11)
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2016-07-08 06:42
I recall from my days with a Leblanc Concerto that they came with a barrel that was a bit too long. If you cannot find a shorter barrel and don't mind committing to the shorter version (the best thing I think anyway), just have a tech shorten it up for you. The sockets are pretty deep so it's just a matter of shaving some length off of it.
...............Paul Aviles
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Author: mmatisoff
Date: 2016-07-08 16:10
Original barrel. I have two. The only marking I found on the mouthpiece is M15.
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Author: kdk
Date: 2016-07-08 16:51
mmatisoff wrote:
> Original barrel. I have two. The only marking I found on the
> mouthpiece is M15.
If you have two, I assume you're using the shorter one?
Series 13 Vandorens have a small "13" next to the bottom left corner of the table. Some of them - the newer ones, I guess - have a 13 in an oval somewhere along the bottom.
Since you have two barrels, I'd second Paul's suggestion to have a skilled tech shorten one of them. It will be much less expensive than a new stock barrel. Barrels from most makers come in lengths from 64 mm to 67 mm or 68 mm. Anything shorter than 64 mm will need to be custom made.
Karl
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Author: WhitePlainsDave
Date: 2016-07-08 19:53
"When I took off the bell this evening, it was spot on."
For a second I thought this might have been a typo for "barrel."
Then of course I realized that if your "it" reasonably meant "your intonation while you play" then you must have played with some barrel....so you did mean bell right?
I would think, as the air escapes the closed pipe that is the clarinets tone holes, at predominantly the next available open hole, (the register key's affect notwithstanding when not otherwise making a throat Bb) that the bell's affect on intonation would only pretty much concern notes like low E and mid B.
This isn't to say that perhaps notes like low F and mid C might be slightly affected to by a bell's removal, but you report a finding where a clarinet, minus its bell, affected all notes for the better by increasing their pitch?
Post Edited (2016-07-09 03:35)
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Author: kdk
Date: 2016-07-08 20:49
WhitePlainsDave wrote:
> "When I took off the bell this evening, it was spot on."
>
> ... but you report a
> finding where a clarinet, minus its bell, affected all notes
> for the better by increasing their pitch?
>
This confused me, also. You're checking notes other than long B or C for intonation, aren't you? It's important to notice how much the notes are off all the way down the clarinet from the throat notes to the bell notes and the same in the clarion register. If only the long bell notes ate flat, this is a whole different question.
Karl
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Author: mmatisoff
Date: 2016-07-08 20:55
After I adjust my reed, I played bell g, throat g, and clarion g. All three were flat. After ~15-20 min, however, all three notes become sharper. I will pay close attention this evening when I practice to see just how many notes are actually flat.
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Author: WhitePlainsDave
Date: 2016-07-08 22:41
I'd be curious to know your findings on your perception/testing of those three notes sans bell (i.e. the last piece of the clarinet; said for context specific pedantic clarity), as conventional wisdom would suggest them all minimally affected, if at all, by the presence or absence of the bell during play.
Good luck.
Post Edited (2016-07-08 22:42)
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Author: saxlite
Date: 2016-07-08 23:06
It is common knowledge that a clarinet ( like all woodwinds ) will be flatter when first played than after say, ten minutes of playing. Try checking your pitch again after you have fully warmed up the instrument and then make your judgement.
Jerry
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Author: kdk
Date: 2016-07-09 00:04
saxlite wrote:
> It is common knowledge that a clarinet ( like all woodwinds )
> will be flatter when first played than after say, ten minutes
> of playing. Try checking your pitch again after you have fully
> warmed up the instrument and then make your judgement.
> Jerry
This is, of course, true enough. But it can be an annoyance, and lots of players solve the problem by using equipment (e.g. the barrel) that will play in tune when cold and then pull the barrel out slightly to compensate for the rise in pitch once the instrument is fully warmed up. This kind of compromise is also needed if you're an orchestral player and need to switch between clarinets mid-rehearsal, concert or piece with no warmup time. Also if you're a pit doubler and need to pick up a clarinet that's been sitting while you play on another instrument.
Karl
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Author: mmatisoff
Date: 2016-07-10 04:14
It is a M15, 13. Warming up for about 15 minutes helps. I drop from 25 cents flat to 15 cents flat. I'm working on my embouchure, too. For now, I'm playing alone (trying to find other musicians in my area to play along with). At that point, if I'm still too flat when playing duets, I will look into having the barrel shortened. I had a Backun barrel shortened a few months back by a local technician and they cracked the barrel. It took another technician at another repair shop to find it. I'm a little hesitant to have some adjust an original barrel. I think it might be prudent to just get another barrel at some point. Thanks all.
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