 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: fromsfca
Date: 2016-06-26 19:13
I play an older Leblanc LL model and play clarinet professionally, along with other reeds.
The horn plays fine and I can play with excellent intonation up to high E. As I go above E to F, F# and G, the intonation goes a qtr to a half tone flat.
I'm playing West Side Story reed 2; the clarinet book with the piccolo regularly played up to high G.
My setup is a backun 41.5 barrel, a McClune mouthpiece and a 3.5 Alexander reed.
I get excellent response and tone; but those three high notes are too flat.
I've been considering trying a different horn (perhaps a Buffet?), to see if that doesn't help...as flat as those notes are, I am unable to get them up to tune.
Any other thoughts? Perhaps a different barrel? A Fobes extension? Other recommendations?
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Author: bmcgar ★2017
Date: 2016-06-26 19:27
Up that high, intonation on any Eb clarinet is up for grabs.
Forget trying to find an eefer that will play in tune with "normal" fingerings--I don't believe there is, or could be, such a thing--and start researching and trying out alternate fingerings.
There are several books on the subject that people here endorse, but I've never bought them. I figured out the alternate fingerings for my instrument on my own, so I can't suggest any. (Hadcock's book seems to be popular.)
B.
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Author: maxopf
Date: 2016-06-26 21:04
High notes are often flat on Eb clarinet.
For high E and the regular fingering for high F, try adding the throat G# key.
For high F, try long F: TR xxxG#|xxx
For high F#, try overblowing a Bb above the staff, adding the RH Eb pinky key.
Or long F#: TR xxo|xxxEb
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Author: Wes
Date: 2016-06-27 00:57
Some Buffets and Selmer Series 9s play fairly good up there. One would have to experiment to find alternate fingerings.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2016-06-27 02:08
Attachment: selmerseries9clarinets 002.JPG (714k)
A local player had a rough time with his Leblanc LL Eb playing up in the stratosphere in Mahler and Shostakovich to the point of him considering packing it in. So I let him try my old 1962 R13 and he had no problem with the top notes on that.
I had a Vito Eb and the top notes on that were hard work and I've also struggled with the altissimo on Noblet Ebs, but find my Buffet and now my Selmer Series 9 Eb are definitely much easier up in the gods than Leblanc and Leblanc-style Ebs.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Caroline Smale
Date: 2016-06-27 02:45
Most Eb clarinets are very sensitive to mouthpiece choice when it comes to intonation. I suspect probably due to bore or chamber differences.
I have a Leblanc LL Eb that a professional colleague can take easily up to altissimo G with good intonation.
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Author: fromsfca
Date: 2016-06-27 05:28
Interesting range of replies:
I found adding the throat A raised the pitch of the E and F
Adding lowest two side keys raised the F# to pitch, but wicked difficult to finger on fast passages (and I have many to play in the show).
I have, as yet, not found any help on high G.
Three votes on alternate fingerings (I do have the Hadcock...I did not find much of assistance).
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Author: 2cekce ★2017
Date: 2016-06-27 05:43
I found that using the alternate fingerings help, but I do play around with different fingerings for my set up which is the Amati pro 3 series with two
barrels I use the shorter one most of the time, 5RV and B44 mpcs with Vand
optimum and Versa ligs, Mitchell Lurie 4 and Vand 3 reeds.
the barrels are stock at 40mm and 42mm
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Author: fromsfca
Date: 2016-06-27 06:02
Thanks....I'm going to try a Buffet R13, and I may try a 40.5 Backun barrel.
I did reread Hadcock and will try both of the alternate g fingerings he recommends.
Opening night is a week from Thursday, so I need to work something out by then.
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Author: Roxann
Date: 2016-06-27 19:01
Thomas Ridenour's book, Clarinet Fingerings: A Comprehensive Guide for the Performer and Educator, has 19 different fingerings for G3 and 21 for F#3. I have found it to be extremely helpful in determining which fingerings work best for both my R13 and my LeBlanc Eb on notes in the stratosphere range. The cost of the book is extremely reasonable and is avaible from him directly.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2016-06-27 19:17
Pick any fingering, think of a note and voila! You're in!
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Ed
Date: 2016-06-27 19:35
I find that on Eb if I have lots of high register playing I need a reed that has a bit more strength, especially at the tip. Be careful not to go too hard as it will otherwise be unresponsive. Voicing the pitch up is also crucial and the Eb has less room for error. Slight adjustments with the tongue position will have a lot of effect.
That reed 2 book on WSS is a lot of fun to play!
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Author: ChiTownClarinet
Date: 2016-06-27 19:42
I'm not a professional, but I play eefer in several very good amateur ensembles and have been an avid fan of the Eb since my college days studying with Mark Nuccio.
I used to have a Leblanc LL as well; pretty nice instrument, but I had the same issue with flat altissimo and found many creative fingerings to deal with it, many of which are mentioned above. Worked well a lot of times, but in very technical passages it would often frustrate me to no end.
2 years ago I took the plunge and bought an R13 Eb (new horn). I couldn't be happier. There's always some adjustment in the altissimo with eefer but it's so much better and easier to manage. I love it! (FYI I use a Clark Fobes barrel which I would highly recommend! Amazing on the Eb).
I would have loved to try an upper end Buffet Eb (I hear great things about the RC Prestige) but the R13 was easier on me financially.
So if it's within your means, you may think about play testing some different instruments. I've never tried the Yamaha or the Patricola models, but I've also heard good reports on those, anecdotally.
Roxann, couldn't agree with you more on the Ridenour alternate fingerings book! EVERY clarinetist should own this, Eb or otherwise! It's changed my playing so much for the better!
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Author: fromsfca
Date: 2016-06-27 20:42
Ed, I agree on the WSS reed 2 book....both the Eb and Bb parts are heckuva lot of fun (dig the running lead line in Cool....plus the many places the Bb is used to lead the reed section....the orchestrator was listening to Benny's big band).
I've been able to improve the F and F#....but still no go on a decent high G, in spite of Hadcock's advice.
I'll try the Ridenour book.
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Author: Ebclarinet1
Date: 2016-06-29 09:30
I had a LeBlanc Eefer in college and the best altissimo E was an overblown G# and then lift up the 3 finger left hand for F. F# you lift up LH 1. Add the side Bb for high G. That made for a fairly good chromatic and it was a few cents sharp even so it would blend with the flutes who were also going sharp in that range.
Those fingerings were mostly way too sharp for my Buffets (R13 and Prestige) although they are useful in a pinch they work, especially in big jumps.
For high G I often use octave key, finger one, G# key and Eb key.
On the LeBlanc I could sometimes get the note using the traditional fingering if I added the sliver key on the RH and I do use that when trying to match flutes or piccolos on a note.
Eefer is such a strange beast. I often use a fingering and just hear and can lip the note to what I want. I hit a high Ab the other day just by overblowing the A (second space). The guy sitting next to me said "how did you do that?".
Hope that helps!
Eefer guy
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Author: saxoftenest
Date: 2016-06-29 20:01
Glad to hear you're getting closer to success!
Whenever I need to revive my eefer chops, I find rudimentary voicing exercises to be essential for altissimo tuning (after I've identified whatever whacky fingering will work for high G this month).
Also, I'll second Ed's suggestion for a stiffer reed - pick up as many different cuts/brands as you can get your hands on. As an example of how far you may want to journey in experimentation, my "outside the box" solution for about 5 years was Bb Vandoren Black Master 3.5's with the butt end cut short to fit the length of my eefer mouthpiece.
Post Edited (2016-06-29 20:10)
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Author: fromsfca
Date: 2016-06-29 20:11
I play a 3.5 Alexander cane reed. Any stiffer and I lose tonal character....though I'm going to try a 4 Legere...as I find the 3.5 Legere clarinet reed has more emphasis on higher partials, which may also raise the pitch on the Eb, without losing character.
I have found that using the the F# fingering for F, and the G fingering for F# have resolved those pitch issues (though it's a bit of mind-zapper).
To get G, I've been trying left 2nd finger; 1st finger right, right hand trill key and a side key. Unfortunately, the tone is very thin...which isn't quite so bad as the Gs are mostly played as 8th notes.
That brings the pitch in tune; but makes fingering the F# sharp grace note into G a killer (as required to play America). I'll be trying a Buffet R13 here over the next few days. If I find marked improvements, I'll switch horns....else, I'll have to 'shed the F# grace note.
As a doubler, I don't specialize in any one reed, though I've been playing clarinet for over 50 years. As it turns out, I've been playing serious Eb for varied engagements for the last few months (I find it a very fun instrument to play).
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Author: KenJarczyk
Date: 2016-06-30 01:19
I am a big fan of Tom Ridenour's alternate fingering book, although to remember some of them requires more than my cranium can store!
Question - are you using standard manufactured Eb reeds? If so, you may have better success with "sawed-off" Bb reeds. Much more meat on the bone, so to speak. Simply use a sharp set of " nibbler-pliers" and take off the bottom 1/2 inch of bottom stock.
Here's hoping that you conquer the altissimo stuff, and dig-in for a really wonderful run of one of the best theater-pit clarinet books, ever!
Enjoy!
Ken Jarczyk
Woodwinds Specialist
Eb, C, Bb, A & Bass Clarinets
Soprano, Alto, Tenor & Baritone Saxophones
Flute, Alto Flute, Piccolo
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Author: fromsfca
Date: 2016-06-30 01:34
I use a Backun eb barrel with a cut out enabling me to use a full length clarinet reed.
But...here's the bottom line.
I was using a custom piece made by David McClune....nice sound and response, but just for fun, switched to a Vandoren 5RV....made all the difference in the world....which is surprising, as I reached out to David thinking his pieces would play better than stock.
With the Vandoren, I still have to use a side key for the G...but then, it's right on the money and the tone is full....and not that difficult to finger with the F# grace note.
Anthony
Soprano, Alto, Tenor saxes
Eb, Bb Bass clarinets
Piccolo, Flute and Alto Flute
Oboe
(Sold the bari sax and bassoon...I live by one moral: only play what you can carry from the car to the gig in one trip)
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Author: fromsfca
Date: 2016-07-15 22:08
Postscript: I sent the piece back to David McClune who realized he had erred when he first adjusted the piece. With his adjustments, he was able to raise the pitch 40 cents on F, F# and G.
He's also gone back and retuned his other in stock pieces. I haven't yet gotten the piece back to try it myself.
However, I strongly recommend Dave's pieces....I like the sound and tone, response and am looking forward to how the tuning adjustments have worked out.
Meanwhile: I discovered my own alternate fingerings, normally involving one or two of the side keys, which are difficult to finger in rapid passages.
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Author: ClarinettyBetty
Date: 2016-07-24 06:22
I had the exact same issue with my 1980's Noblet Eb. I recently bought a 1972 Buffet BC20, which was an RC precursor. With a Fobes barrel and 5RV mouthpiece, the top notes come out with regular fingerings and regular amounts of embouchure finagling to be in tune.
While it does not help you for your show, I highly recommend upgrading to save yourself future headaches! Not only do the top notes play better in tune, but the whole horn feels butter. (My experience, anyway.
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