 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: elise
Date: 2001-05-15 21:20
on the less bright side, i recently noticed that my 2 year old r13 (bought 12/99) has a bit of the silver plating come off. we know that the keys are silver with the layer of pre-plated copper and then finished with silver, so the layer that shows through is the pinkish copper, which is less than attractive (especially as compared to the wear of older instruments.) does it affect playability? no, not really, so it isn't a burning issue, but after only 2 years with it, moderate playing and the best care (call me a freak, call me obsessive, it's like my child), i can't understand why i would be having this problem.
either way, the plating's off on 3 rings, 2 less than the other, but it is definately a cosmetic flaw and i'm sure it'll get worse from now on more than ever before. i don't know what buffet's warranty/policy is on this (if my instrument came with something) and i'd like to be prepared before i call my repair guy.
questions: what is the typical buffet warranty on r13s, if any? should i have this replated or replaced? any ideas would be much appreciated.
elise
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Author: bob gardner
Date: 2001-05-15 22:22
If you purchased the horn new then I would go to the dealer and see what they can do for you. The have more power then you do.
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Author: Mark Pinner
Date: 2001-05-15 23:58
You may be one of those unfortunates who has very acidic skin. Unfortunately silver does not react to this very well. I know someone who had the same problem with an older Buffet and found that the solution was gold plating which does not react to the acid as badly. If you dont get any satisfaction from the dealer or the manufacturer wait until the horn needs a re-pad and then talk to a good repairer about gold plating it is not as expensive as you think. The other alternative is nickel/ german silver plating which may not be what you are after.
As an aside I had an rc prestige bought to me for repair. It was about 14 months old and the bell had cracked vertically all the way through. Obviously a major fault with the wood billet used in manufacturer. The warranty period was 12 months but you think under rare circumstances such as these Buffet may have been willing to help but alas no. They were willing to supply a new bell at full price, less trade discount, which was fairly substantial. The owner of the instrument then sold the thing and bought a LeBlanc vowing never again to touch a Buffet instrument. Buffet did not seem to care. The moral of the story is do not expect a manufacturer to do a damn thing to help you.
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Author: Anji
Date: 2001-05-16 01:16
You will definitely want the seller to help out at the current time, I have some real doubt about how responsive Buffet will be during their current restructuring.
anji
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2001-05-16 06:30
If you have questions you might want to contact Francos Kloc at Buffet directly.
BTW - what restructuring? They're only moving to my knowledge, not restructuring.
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Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2001-05-16 13:35
If you've had the instrument 2 years you can pretty well forget your dealer's help except to try to sell you a new instrument or repair the one you have. You can get keys silver-plated--but it is expensive. I have a Buffet warranty card right here in front of me and concerning this issue it reads:
The limited warranty does not cover any damage caused by
negligence, willful destruction, normal wear or plated or lacquered
surface deterioration caused by atmospheric conditions or
perspiration acids.
So, that lets them off the hook on this issue. It would be out of the dealer's pocket to do anything about your problem, so I doubt he would be willing to do much more than perhaps offer a discount on another instrument or repairs.
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2001-05-16 18:28
But - Buffet has bent over backwards to try and correct an image of not caring for some years. It won't hurt to ask Buffet directly - your dealer can't cover the repair, but Buffet may themselves.
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Author: Matt Locker
Date: 2001-05-16 18:42
FWIW, I had ordered 3 clarinets from WW&BW - 2 Yamaha's and an R13 (NP). I really liked the sound of the R13 and had decided to purchase it when I discovered that the thumb pipe (?) was not bonded correctly to the upper joint. It was leaking all over my thumb. In addition, the bell had what I originally thought was a little defect - a dent. Upon closer inspection it appeared to have a slight crack from the dent to the edge of the bell under the ring. Talk about depressing.
I ended up purchasing a Yamaha from my "local" store 1 hour away. I had ordered a CSV and an SE from WW&BW. I purchased an SEV which I thought sounded much better than the CSV or SE. The Yamaha is absolutely gorgeous, but didn't quite sing the way the R13 did. In my eyes, though, the 2 were close enough in sound that the higher quality of the Yamaha won out. Plus the difficulty of potential long-distance warranty scared me off. Now if only Yamaha would do something about the miniscule case they provide. It's really esthetically nice but totally impractical in my eyes. {:(}
MOO,
Matt
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Author: elise
Date: 2001-05-16 19:18
Follow-up:
I agree with you all-it seems pretty clear that this isn't a problem that's going to be picked up in any way. So what's the next step?
A) Is it worth getting something done about this, seeing as it does not affect playability?
B) Is the copper layer under it going to deteriorate the same way, assuming that this wear is due to acidic skin?
C) Does it make more sense to replace the keys or replate?
D) Does it make more sense to go with gold or nickel, etc.?
Any more comments would be great.
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Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2001-05-17 13:30
Yes, it's worth giving Buffet a try. Then if you don't get the results you want, you'll have to decide if it's worth the effort and money to have it fixed. If it sounds and plays great, you might not want to bother.
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2001-05-18 14:32
Are the two rings on the same key, i.e. right hand rings? If so then it is the plating of one part that has failed. If it was corrosive perspiration I would expect the problem to be appearing on many different keys. I would also expect the problem to begin as tiny, sand-paper-like blisters, rather than actual peeling.
Perhaps the plating run for a batch of only this particular key was substandard.
I would be persistent. It is equivalent to the paint peeling on a car.
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Author: Rosie
Date: 2001-05-19 18:59
I read this thread with great interest. I purchased my R13 in September, and the plating is coming off . . . not really pealing, it's just gone in some places, white and cloudy in other places. (I'm taking it back to the dealer in a couple of weeks when I can get a few days off from work). Mark Pinner's comment really bothered me, though. I thought the problem was because I had nickel plating and I was hoping that maybe silver would be a better alternative, but he remarked that the silver can also be a problem. Well, we'll see what the dealer says (ww&bw, nyc). I appreciate the email address to Mr. Kloc, though, because I might try that too, to get some suggestions and alternatives. Gold just seems over-the-top for me, though.
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2001-05-20 13:11
Good quality EPNS (electroplated nickel silver) "silver" cutlery lasts for decades with no problems. That is because the plating is correctly done and thick. Silver plated clarinet keys (same metal; same plating) should last just as well. Keys y probably get less of a hiding from wear but admittedly are not regularly washed. If lack of washing was the problem I would expect the symptom to be PITTING of the plating, not wear or flaking. But a "DECORATIVE" silver plating, although it initially looks the same, is much thinner and not able to cope with handling. I suspect manufacturers may be skimping on the plating.
But I may be wrong.
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Author: elise
Date: 2001-05-20 17:01
To respond to the comments as to the location of the wear and type, the most wear is on a right hand ring, there is a little bit on the first right hand ring, and there is also just a smidge on a left hand ring (so I'm thinking the corrosive perspiration here.) It did not blister. It looks extremely smooth, it is still very smooth to the touch. It almost looks like the copper was painted on because the top silver layer is so thin.
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2001-05-21 13:58
It just sounds too thin. But do you do anything in your job or leasure that would embed abrasive particles in your skin. If not, I would seek FREE key replacement or THICK replating and hope that it is only those keys that are bad. Silver plated cutlery gets quite a lot of rubbing against the table, table cloth, sink, and drawer and takes many years to wear through (like at the back of the spoons). Key plating on a top clarinet make SHOULD be done to last even longer in my opinion.
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