 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: alanporter
Date: 2016-06-26 00:22
I have a low Eb bass that I play in a local community concert band. Out of the very many scores I have played none have ever gone lower than E flat. I have just received a piece that goes down to low D and it would not be suitable, in this particular case, to go up an octave or to miss out playing the note.
Is it possible to push a piece of tubing into the bell to achieve an acceptable D ? If so, would the diameter of the tube be critical ? Any helpful advice will be much appreciated.
Alan
tiaroa@shaw.ca
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Author: Burt
Date: 2016-06-26 01:05
I did this on a bari sax to reach a low "A". With the tubing in place, you will not be able to play Eb. Check that the "E" is in tune. Determine the length by trial and error, but sticking out 2-3" from the bell would be my guess.
I have not tried this, but making the tube 3" longer and drilling a (1" ?) hole in the tube 3" from the end may help the tone quality.
The tube needs to fit into the bell far enough not to flop around because you need to have a good air seal. For my bari, I used PVC pipe and weatherstripping (available at a home improvement supply store).
Burt Marks
enthusiastic amateur - retired
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2016-06-26 01:23
Experiment first with a cardboard inner tube from a roll of paper towels, braced with duct tape if necessary.
The classic solution is to stick a shoe in the bell.
In both cases, you lose the low Eb.
If none of these works, conspire with one of the bassoonists to cover the note, as in the Tchaikovsky 6th. A trombone or baritone or horn player could also do it.
Ken Shaw
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Author: LarryBocaner ★2017
Date: 2016-06-26 04:02
"If none of these works, conspire with one of the bassoonists to cover the note, as in the Tchaikovsky 6th. A trombone or baritone or horn player could also do it."
Low E is the lowest note in Tchaikovsky 6th -- no help needed.
Way back when I didn't have a low C bass clarinet, I did use a cardboard tube stuck in the bell to produce low D -- you can experiment with length and diameter to get you the pitch and timbre you want. And of course you do lose low E-flat as long as the tube stays in your bell!
Never heard of anyone sticking a shoe in their bell.
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2016-06-26 07:47
Shoe in the bell works for playing a low-A on tenor sax, but does not work on bass clarinet for playing a low-D.
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Author: Mojo
Date: 2016-06-26 17:18
A Bari sax player can also cover it if they have a Bari with a low A.
MojoMP.com
Mojo Mouthpiece Work LLC
MojoMouthpieceWork@yahoo.com
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2016-06-26 18:10
If it's a pp low Concert C, then that won't be the case. Yes a bari sax has that range (with low A), but the low notes on bari are far stronger but less easy to control at low volumes compared to bass clarinet which can whisper those low notes with ease and with no attack. The risk of that note splitting on bari sax is great at such low volume levels.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: alanporter
Date: 2016-06-26 20:39
Thank you for your helpful replies, Gentlemen.
I have done the experiment with a thin walled one and half inch ID plastic pipe. It started 12 inches long and gave a D a little over 20 cents flat. Surprisingly it did not affect natural E.
I gradually shortened the pipe and at seven and three quarter inches long, with the end level with the rim of the bell, it gave a perfect D (concert C).
It lost low Eb of course, but that does not matter as my next lowest note in the score is F.
I doubt this will give me this year's Nobel Prize for Physics, but I enjoyed the experiment.
Alan
tiaroa@shaw.ca
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2016-06-26 20:53
The most recent Jupiter basses have a longer lower joint with all the keywork on it and a vent hole on the bell for the low Eb to issue from. So closing that vent should bring the pitch of the low Eb down sufficiently to get a low D from it.
The next thing that can be done if you happen to have a Jupiter bass is have someone fit a bell key (a regular bass bell key and fittings should do from a donor or scrap bell) and a key for the right thumb to operate it also sourced and fabricated from keys from a trashed plastic bass.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: alanporter
Date: 2016-06-26 21:17
A great idea Chris. However, my bass is a student Vito with the Eb key on the bell.
In many years of playing this is the first time I have ever needed to go below Eb, so I don't need to make any changes. I am keeping the plastic pipe in my case, because you never know !
Alan
tiaroa@shaw.ca
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2016-06-26 21:30
I had a low Bb barrel with a key made specifically for my cor anglais so I can get a Concert low Eb on it. It's linked directly to the low B key so I lose the B natural entirely while it's engaged, just as you'd lose the low Eb on a bass with a piece of tubing placed in the bell for the low D.
Originally I had a plain wooden barrel that had to be removed each time I wanted a low B natural, but with the keyed barrel I only need to disengage it from the bell vent key link by rotating it a few degrees so the lowest note is B natural again.
A similar thing can be made for a low Eb bass or to extend a bass built to low E to low Eb (eg. old Conn, etc. basses) and keyed so you have the full chromatic range. Cost will be an issue if you can't justify it on a regular plastic bass, but it at least bridges a slight gap between an affordable bass and a pro level low C bass costing many times that of a plastic bass.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: derf5585
Date: 2016-06-26 22:10
Just a thought but do not know if it would work
Pull out the crook as far as it would go, same for the mouthpiece.
Also pull out the bell.
Would that get a acceptable "D"
Then play all other notes up a major 2nd
fsbsde@yahoo.com
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2016-06-27 00:46
That will throw the entire scale out of whack.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2016-06-27 05:12
Will the madness ever end???
I just took an 18 1/2 in. piece of grey PVC tube that was previously the divider in a plastic garage shelf system. The low C was not too bad. So, maybe carry three separate pieces of tube: an 18 1/2 in. for low C, a 7 3/4 in. for D, and a third of some mid-length for a Db.
HRL
PS One end's OD was a little smaller so using the other end I found it fit better and produced a more sonorous note.
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Author: derf5585
Date: 2016-06-27 05:26
Maybe this will give you some ideas
Unexplored Depths: Contrabassoon Extensions
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G8nRRwTnSbM
fsbsde@yahoo.com
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Author: alanporter
Date: 2016-06-27 05:32
Yes, derf5585, my post at 20.39 hours said I got a perfect D.
Alan
tiaroa@shaw.ca
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Author: smokindok
Date: 2016-06-27 07:35
Pre-low C bass, I used a PVC extension in the bell when I needed the low D. The extension I made was carefully beveled to slide nicely into the bell and had an approximately 12" long piece of light aluminum angle (1/2" x 1/2" x 1/16", I believe) riveted on the end, perpendicular to the extension. This allowed my to lift the extension out with my knees so I could play passages that also required the Eb. It worked very well and my pit colleagues were in awe :-)
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Author: Mojo
Date: 2016-06-27 16:16
Could you rubber band it to your knees so you could lift it in/out?
MojoMP.com
Mojo Mouthpiece Work LLC
MojoMouthpieceWork@yahoo.com
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Author: smokindok
Date: 2016-06-27 17:44
Mojo - No need for rubber-banding. Lift out with the knees and return was by gravity. The PCV extension had enough weight that it slid back into place very quickly. It was possible to trill D to D# just with toe action raising and lowering the knees.
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Author: Mojo
Date: 2016-06-28 16:31
Cool! Next rig up a slip joint with two pieces of PVC so you can play low C like a slide trombone.
MojoMP.com
Mojo Mouthpiece Work LLC
MojoMouthpieceWork@yahoo.com
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