 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: tiagocunha
Date: 2016-06-19 21:06
After 3 months of rehearsals, I feel despaired: I'm going to play the 1st clarinet part of this piece by Paul Dukas and I cannot play sufficiently well a lot of parts, even with daily training. Someone of the board played this? Do you have some tips? Thank you all, Tiago Cunha (OAUL-Portugal)
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2016-06-19 21:21
TSA looks normal, but it's HARD. You learn the difficult licks one at a time, by practicing very slowly. There's no short cut.
Ken Shaw
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Author: TomS
Date: 2016-06-19 23:30
Fast and frantic in some passages. I've only played the 2nd clarinet part in orchestra, years ago, and it was bit of a challenge.
Don't tense up and just try to relax. Mental and muscular tension is the killer.
SLOW practice ... metronome required.
One of the Clarinet Professors in our area was telling me what a beast is was to pull this piece off ... so don't think you are alone
You will make it!
Tom
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Author: kdk
Date: 2016-06-20 00:25
After 3 months of rehearsals plus home practice on the part, there are surely some parts that you *can* play. It's more productive if you center your attention on what you can't yet do well.
Some of the problem with this piece is that Dukas used 3/8 for the time signature, counted as one beat per measure. Sometimes it's hard just keeping track of where you are because the tempo is so quick. It's easier to think about if you re-organize it in your mind. The bars generally (with a couple of exceptions) fall into groupings of 3 measures. In effect it's in 9/8 - three beats to a group and each beat subdivided as a triplet. Occasionally, there are groupings of 4 - which are like 12/8. I find this can slow for me the feeling of frantically trying to "keep up." Many times, this is how the conductor will actually indicate the beats.
Some of the problems come from grace notes that complicate otherwise simple patterns (for example 4 bars before #2 or the fourth bar of #3). You need to work these out slowly until your mind and fingers know what the next note is, but the passages are playable once you're gotten them "under your fingers."
The whole section on page 6 (#22 to past #25) is, I think, notorious for being a lot of work at full tempo and barely if at all heard, and it's the whole upper woodwind section screaming away. It can be played accurately with lots of practice, but if you need to drop a measure here or there to keep up (or breathe) no one will ever know, so long as all the flutes, oboes and clarinets don't drop out for the same measure. The page works out much more easily if you can analyze the note patterns - look for familiar arpeggios (there are a number of diminished 7th chords and some other basic triads with a single color note added) or for measures with the same notes. I will commit the heresy (for which I will no doubt be roundly scolded) of suggesting that this passage, difficult as it is and in the background as it is, is something you might not give as much practice time as the more exposed places where playing the part well will make a greater difference.
Again, there are probably lots of places you already can play and your difficulties are with certain specific passages. You might get more useful help if you can identify the passages you're still having trouble with. It may be that the answer is simply "more practice," but there might be some specific things to try that could make them easier.
Karl
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2016-06-20 02:09
I agree firstly that this piece is on the "unnecessarily difficult" list. Also, as stated above the parts in question are buried deep in the texture. I think Dukas had a shimmery texture in mind that can only be achieved with all the winds going ballistic. Not much different than some Wagner or Ravel.
Don't sweat it.
I still recall seeing this as a sight reading piece for a youth symphony orchestra. I still kinda have nightmares about that.
...................Paul Aviles
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Author: JHowell
Date: 2016-06-20 06:11
Fingerings can make a big difference. At some tempo it becomes worth trading a little pitch for speed, and there are a lot of shortcuts, depending on what you need. Do you have someone helping you with this? If not, perhaps you might specify one or two hardest bars and see what we come up with for solutions.
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Author: Philip Caron
Date: 2016-06-20 07:05
According to one source, the tempo is 116 (per dotted quarter). How do people play the all-articulated bars of 16ths toward the end? 6 notes @ 116 equals 4 @ 174. That's right up there, but I've rarely heard this piece mentioned as one of the articulation challenges of the clarinet's orchestral repertoire.
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Author: Wes
Date: 2016-06-20 08:10
Even the great oboist, M. Tabuteau, said that some of the oboe part was not playable. It was too many notes in four flats high on the instrument, six notes to a beat, at a fast tempo. My oboe part says 126 for the 3/8 time but conductors sometimes gloss over the mistakes and don't say anything.
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Author: JonTheReeds
Date: 2016-06-20 16:14
I played this a few years ago and never got up to speed
As Karl has pointed out, one problem is just keeping up, a problem exacerbated by the fact that the clarinet music is often French style, ie. both Clarinet 1 a 2 are on the same stave. This makes it even harder to keep up and produces interesting page turns
But also as Karl points out, it's generally background music, so not vital (at least for an amateur) to play every note. I got round it but just playing the 1st note in each bar. A complete patzer approach I admit, but practical in the given situation, as there was other music that I could play and where the clarinet was an integral part to the complete sound
--------------------------------------
The older I get, the better I was
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2016-06-20 19:16
I'm assuming you're referring to several tutti passages. Take it from a professional, there are times you just have to fake. Leave out some notes, play four of a six not run, etc. Sure, it's embarrasing if the conductor says, clarinets alone, so you have to hope they don't. You're a student playing an extremely difficult professional caliber piece. Just make sure you keep the beats in the right place so you don't fall behind.
I played a contempory piece several years ago written by a local composer and there was a page of 16th notes that skipped in large internals all over the place at a mm marking of 160. After working on it for days on end, I always tried to play my part, I looked at the score and realized it was a massive tutti passage so I practiced it leaving out as many notes as possible to keep up with the beat. At the first rehearsal, the composer was present, the wind section was all over the place and the first flute player said the parts are impossible at this tempo. When the conductor asked the composer a question about it he said, it's just for effect, just do what ever they can. I felt better. Later I said something to the composer, he taught at Peabody where I was teaching, I said, why didn't you just write this is for effect in our parts. :-)
ESP eddiesclarinet.com
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Author: johng ★2017
Date: 2016-06-20 20:18
double post
John Gibson, Founder of JB Linear Music, www.music4woodwinds.com
Post Edited (2016-06-20 21:15)
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Author: johng ★2017
Date: 2016-06-20 20:26
Attachment: sorcerer before 53.jpg (628k)
Lots of really good advice here and I would add: 1) everyone comments about how hard it is, but a better attitude is that it is all fun....and good luck! 2) slow practice and judiciously leaving out some parts is excellent advice and to that I add my favorite difficult (but fun) passage method which is based on practicing at the fastest tempo you can play, but pausing on the last easy note before completing the passage. Of course, you mayneed to break some passages up into small bits.
So for example I have attached the section before (53). Let's say that you crash when you get to 2 before (53). Play the passage to the last note of the previous measure (E natural in this example) and hold that note for enough time for you to process what you need to do next for the upcoming measure. Then continue at tempo. What you are doing is giving your mind time to train itself. Most of the time I find multiple places where I have to pause so I just keep changing pausing places as I practice. This is similar to another good method where you change the rhythm of the passage in order to emphasize different finger movements.
Good luck with your performance and keep having fun playing!
John Gibson, Founder of JB Linear Music, www.music4woodwinds.com
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Author: Alphie
Date: 2016-06-21 02:20
At 31:01 at this clip Martin Fröst is conducting us in RSPO in Sorcerer's Apprentice:
http://rspoplay.se/?m=Zial1d-S26sKz4SSi26t3Q
It was the first time in my long career that I got the pleasure to play it. I remember that I decided to practice it very carefully from day one and I only had one week before the show. I took out the difficult bits and started at a slow speed where I played every note correct with ease, let's say 50bpm/measure. I played the whole section only one time. Then I put the metronome on 51 and played it one time, 52 one time etc etc... An hour later I could play it in tempo. I did the same thing with all the difficult sections. The next day I started at 60bpm and did the same thing. Next day at 70bpm. Boring as hell but very effective. I play 2nd in this but both parts are equally difficult!
Alphie
Post Edited (2016-06-21 02:30)
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The Clarinet Pages
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