 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Riley-NZL
Date: 2016-05-24 14:32
I've been playing the clarinet for approx 6 weeks, and the Bass for 3-4 weeks, and have amasses a small collection of reeds. I've been drying them on a microfiber cloth, chucking them back ion there original individual holders, and chucking them in a snaplock bag (Clarinet reeds in one, Bass Clarinet reeds in another.
Everything has been fine an dandy, until Sunday, I popped some out, and one each of my clarinet/bass clarinet reeds has black spots, and one of the Bass Clarinet reeds has an red tinged dark spot. All of them on the bottom of the reed.
Firstly, is there any saving them, or should I just chuck them out?
Secondly, how do I stop it happening again? Should I be letting them air dry before putting them into the bags? Should I be using and Reed case?
The Ricoh Reed Cases with humidity packs seem to be widely available where I live, along with the really cheap "reed guard" style cases from various brands, and at the other end of the scale, $110 Forestone glass plate cases inside a wooden case.
I've also seen washing the reeds in Hydrogen Peroxide or Vodka throw around in various bits of the internet?
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Author: Tobin
Date: 2016-05-24 15:37
If you seal any wet thing in a ziploc bag it will develop mold. The Rico Humidipack (Boveda pack) prohibits the appearance of mold. So if you're going to use the ziplock bag you'll need a Humidipack/Boveda product...or just don't use a ziplock bag.
I wouldn't bother washing the reeds with vodka or HP.
I wouldn't bother with any fancy expensive reed cases ($110?!?).
I wouldn't play the moldy reeds.
Welcome to the clarinet world!
James
Gnothi Seauton
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Author: Tony F
Date: 2016-05-24 16:01
Your problem is with the ziplock bags. If you let the reeds airdry they won't go mouldy. In the meantime, you've learned a useful lesson from reed care 101. Throw the mouldy reeds out and start again.
Tony F.
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2016-05-24 16:12
Scrub off the mold with an old toothbrush and a little bit of toothpaste and rinse well. The mold tastes bad, but it's not poisonous (or else I would be long dead).
Unlike many people, I store my reeds dry. I hold the butt of the reed between my left thumb and forefinger and swipe forward from the shoulder to the tip with my right thumb and forefinger. It takes 10 or more swipes to get the vamp completely dry.
I then keep the reeds in a holder with ventilation, such as the ones Vandoren uses.
Ken Shaw
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Author: grenadilla428
Date: 2016-05-25 08:16
Lose the ziploc bag. I tend to dry my reeds a bit (by either gently swiping across my forearm or between thumb and first finger) before putting them away. No sealed containers, please. If you end up using a reed guard, run it through the dishwasher every now and then.
Whether to try and salvage them is up to you. I wouldn't bother with it, but that's just me. If it grosses you out less than me, or if your system isn't as sensitive as mine, give it a try... but I don't think you'll be able to actually rid the reed of mold once it's growing.
Happy playing!
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Author: D@K
Date: 2016-05-25 09:21
I think the black stuff is a colony of stafflocacus (staff). We all have varying degrees of staff in our mouths but generally the population is held low due to oral irrigation and hygiene.
Cane or wood is porous. Staff finds a good home in it.
My (conspiracy) theory is that proper cane treatment would allow reeds to last a lot longer. Any information that shortens reed life make more money for businesses providing products.
So "Keep your reeds moist" is what we are told.
I remember stories about a violin maker that was asked about the secret to his fine instruments. He replied that he kept his wood moist. This was the opposite of his technique of drying his Woodstock. His business was protected by this disinformation.
My woodshop class repeatedly stressed that wood does not react well to moisture. Crafting wood involves sealing the pours. Since we need to continue to adjust the reed what is required is a sealant that penetrates below the surface. I use food grade mineral oil.
When I travel I don't take the mineral oil because of airport security restrictions, so I take a few vitamin E's which I believe use mineral oil as the carrier. E is good for your skin as a bonus.
Alox sandpaper that's lubricated with oil produces a wonderful smooth finish for the ramp. I smooth finish the reed backside on flat glass and dry Alox paper. I store reeds on glass blanks coated with oil.
Sometimes the reeds act thick or stuffy.
I have found glycerin an excellent solution as it gently dissolves the oil on the outer surface. This returns the crispness the the reed.
Black "moldy" reeds are history as the staff can't colonize into the sealed pours.
Reed warping is reduced because the moisture doesn't disturb the reeds interior cell structure.
I've spent the last 2 years working on this subject and I'm still exploring.
I wonder what other folks have discovered?
I hope you find this helpful.
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Author: Tobin
Date: 2016-05-25 15:48
Keeping the reeds in a humidified environment is not keeping them wet.
Have any cigar enthusiasts, who also humidify their cigars, ever complained about the cigar being "wet" when they went to enjoy it? Not that I've met.
During the reed prep process it is important to seal the pores of the reed to resist moisture. This is done my smoothing the flat side and the vamp of the reed.
My reeds, prepped, rotated, and humidified, last longer than were they not prepped, rotated, and humidified.
James
Gnothi Seauton
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Author: D@K
Date: 2016-05-25 19:48
Hey Gnothi,
I get your point. The humidor keeps the tobacco from drying out.
But they don't have saliva all over them prior to being stored.
Plus, tobacco is not that good a home to bacteria.
It has been used as an insecticide.
Keeping reeds moist is key to keeping their structure from shifting.
Think about the pages of a magazine after they dry from getting wet.
The structure of the paper alters when it dries.
I have found that oil does a better job than water for keeping reeds from drying out.
My quest is to allow the lignin to absorb oil instead of water. This allows the reeds structure to resonate and not dry out as easily.
Bacteria need water moisture for nourishment. The oil provides none.
By the way, I never used the word "wet".
D@K
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Author: BartHx
Date: 2016-05-25 22:00
D@K:
Would you know off hand which species of Staphylococcus you believe is infecting the reeds? I would not consider myself an expert, but I am unfamiliar with a species of Staph that forms black colonies. On the other hand, I can think of several molds that would give that appearance. A reed with a Staph colony growing on it should not only be trashed but, if verified, many states would require that it be sterilized first as it would be considered a biohazard. I believe the lignin in the cane is more likely to support the growth of a mold than a Staph colony.
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Author: tucker ★2017
Date: 2016-05-25 22:08
D&K.... just a friendly correction to your comments. Your comments regarding what could possibly be growing on Riley's reeds are incorrect. You stated it "I think the black stuff is a colony of stafflocacus (staff). It's actually Staphylococcus, referred to as Staph. There are 40 some odd species of this genus found in the mouth with more than 700 different species of other genera bacteria growing in the typical oral cavity. It would be impossible to know what's growing on a reed. Colonies of bacteria are difficult enough to grow on substrates of agar under ideal conditions of a medical lab, much less clarinet reeds, granted, I'm sure there are plenty on there. What Riley is seeing would most likely be some sort of mycological specimen (fungal) growing on the reed.
From your post, you appear to be a detailed oriented person, so I just wanted to offer a friendly correction.
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Author: Tobin
Date: 2016-05-26 00:10
D@K
My apologies -- moist ("slightly wet, damp, or humid").
Humidipack/Boveda products prohibit mold from forming.
You do it your way, I do it my way -- the OP can use a ziplock bag with a humidpack/boveda, or no ziplock bag, or do what you do...or whatever process brings them a reliable reed.
James
Gnothi Seauton
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Author: D@K
Date: 2016-05-26 01:33
Hey BartHx, Tucker,
Yep, my mistake, not "staph" (thanks for the corrections), but mold. Black mold (fungi) likely a Stachybotrys species that inhabit materials rich in cellulose.
Sorry,
D@K
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Author: fskelley
Date: 2016-05-26 02:33
I wonder how upset I could make some folks by suggesting that mold or bacteria might possibly improve the sound or playability of reeds, and that someone (perhaps I) should embark on a detailed study in lieu of actually practicing music. "His most ill-advised idea it would not be", says Yoda.
Stan in Orlando
EWI 4000S with modifications
Post Edited (2016-05-26 06:02)
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Author: Lelia Loban ★2017
Date: 2016-05-26 16:45
Even if somebody proved that mold and bacteria would improve a reed's performance . . . ick. And the ick-factor wins.
I live in a humid climate (northern Virginia, USA) but have kept my reeds, swabs and clarinets free of mold by drying them thoroughly before I put them away. I use containers that let in some air, not plastic bags.
Lelia
http://www.scoreexchange.com/profiles/Lelia_Loban
To hear the audio, click on the "Scorch Plug-In" box above the score.
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Author: BartHx
Date: 2016-05-27 06:55
It may be urban legend, I don't know, but here goes. . . .
I heard a story about a teacher whose young student was having trouble producing any tone at a particular lesson. The teacher took the student's instrument and found that he had similar problems. When he took the reed off, he found the entire area on the back of the reed over the mouthpiece window was covered with a heavy layer of green, Penicillium mold.
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Author: Tony F
Date: 2016-05-27 08:23
Probably true. I've seen mouthpieces that wouldn't be out of place on a mushroom farm.
Tony F.
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Author: fskelley
Date: 2016-05-27 18:03
You couldn't pay me to play my clarinet from a few occasions circa 1969 when I had neglected it but it was band time. I was grossed out even then, and I'm a lot more fastidious today.
So, I'm not really tempted to deliberately grow nasties for testing purposes. Still, if it played better...
Stan in Orlando
EWI 4000S with modifications
Post Edited (2016-05-27 18:04)
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Author: Lelia Loban ★2017
Date: 2016-05-27 19:24
My grammar school band teacher would occasionally make all the clarinet players remove our reeds and show him their backs. He made a wonderfully humorous skit out of screaming and pretending to vomit as he held the most offensive reed out at arm's length.
Lelia
http://www.scoreexchange.com/profiles/Lelia_Loban
To hear the audio, click on the "Scorch Plug-In" box above the score.
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Author: fskelley
Date: 2016-05-27 20:07
That sounds like so much fun, I bet he was a wonderful director. So was mine.
Stan in Orlando
EWI 4000S with modifications
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