 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: BGBG
Date: 2016-05-14 08:35
If anyone has a way to listen to the Jim Reeves recording of Adios, Amigo I need to know how to write the timing of the first line after the introduction, or "Adios.........friend"the way he SINGS it which does NOT seem to be the way sheet music shows it. I do not have a deep knowledge of music timing writing but it seems like it is in 3/4 time and a measure has something like a triplet with a half note to make up the 3 beats. Is it possible to have a quarter note triplet with the third note a bridge to a half note? That is what it seems to need. I transposed some sheet music to key of C and I want to write it like it is sung but dont know how. Have the correct notes but dont know how to put it on the staff in the timing in which it is sung. If I said all that correctly maybe someone knows how to do this. An example of first 5 notes on staff or how to get a triplet and half note to fit a 3 beat measure. It is like A-di-os sounding like triplet but -os extended to 3 beats. Could be wrong but that is how I hear it. Easy to find a free MP3 download but I took it from an old album. Maybe I just dont know how to divide the notes into measures and write it. Could be 2 quarter rests and 2 eighth notes measure , then a whole note measure. But not sure. I will keep working on it and an opinion would help.
Post Edited (2016-05-14 08:40)
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2016-05-14 08:55
Write the notes as normal, but write 'Freely' or 'rubato' above it so anyone reading it will know they're meant to pull things around with the timing instead of playing everything to the letter.
Soloists and singers will tend to pull things around instead of playing everything exactly as written, so that's to be expected even if the sheet music says otherwise.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: BGBG
Date: 2016-05-14 09:45
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l7BtqvnKJEY
Here is a YouTube video I found. I had a hunch perhaps singers may not sing exactly as timing shows and notes might not be able to strictly show the timing in which they sing. I cant seem to write it the way it sounds and was looking for an explanation or the correct writing if I am not expert enough to create it. What you say is what I have thought but never had it verified. Maybe I will have to just memorize how it sounds and play it that way without exact music, if that is how it is done. Dont have much formal music training. Thanks for the explanation.
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2016-05-14 15:22
My guess, without seeing the music is what is known as 'swing' rhythm. A lot of popular music is just written in straight eighths but is actually played or sung as if it were a triplet figure holding the first note of the group for the length of two of the triplet. Or think of it as if you are playing in 6/8 with a quarter note and eighth note on every pulse. This "feel" is variable, being less weighted toward the triplet and more toward straight eighths the faster the tempo.
The other thing about this is that to write it out strictly indicating EXACTLY the way this style sounds is way, WAY too confusing to read. I've seen it and it is NOT worth the trouble.
................Paul Aviles
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2016-05-14 16:32
Attachment: adios-amigo.png (68k)
It will be near to impossible to have a group of singers all sing things rubato and keep perfect time with each other, Similarly with musicians if they're only used to playing exactly what's in front of them.
If you do choose to write out what singers do exactly as they do it, then it'll look like a complete mess what with subdivided triplets, quintuplets, sextruplets, septuplets, etc. as well as notes going over the barlines, all manner of gracings, pitch bends, ... and if you want people who have no concept of swing to play something as near to swing rhythms as possible, then you'll have to write it all out in 9/8 and 12/8 instead of 3/4 and 4/4 or using dotted rhythms if they play everything dead straight or very dotted and nothing in between.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l7BtqvnKJEY
The pick-up to this is the last two of a group of quaver triplets for "A-di-" then "-os" in the first full bar of the vocal line will take up beats 1, 2 and 2/3 of beat 3, the last triplet quaver is the start of 'Amigo' with "mi-os" being the first two (swung) quavers in bar 2 of the song.
See attachment as that will explain it better.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2016-05-14 16:57
... only I forgot to add 'rubato' or 'Freely' there.
The problem I've had when playing solos is some conductors/directors/instructors especially from a military background don't like how I want to have more freedom to pull things about instead of playing things exactly as written, so that has caused a fair bit of conflict with them, especially if they want to take things at a fair lick when all I want to do is sit back on the tempo to have more time to do things that aren't written. It's all very well to play what's on the page, but it's also something to play what's not there - anyone can play the notes, but not everyone can play what's not written. Maybe I'm a bit too free thinking than some people can deal with.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
Post Edited (2016-05-14 17:46)
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Author: BGBG
Date: 2016-05-14 19:15
I agree....not worth time and trouble to fail in the end. But I did not realize this until now and had no one to ask. Thought I was wrong if didnt write it like it was sung. Thanks for enlightening me.
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Author: BGBG
Date: 2016-05-15 03:47
Chris- I see what you mean, and this DOES look like what I was attempting to do. I think I will just stick to the written music until I get good enough to vary from it, and then still not attempt to write it down. My attempt was already looking like a mess. It seemed like a good idea at the time. I believe I would best off stick to playing and not writing, unless necessary.
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Author: BGBG
Date: 2016-05-17 02:15
Chris P. , I just thought I would ask. If you dont mind saying, is there a source for this piece of sheet music? I am attempting to write it but it still is difficult. If not, I understand. BG
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2016-05-17 15:47
There is sheet music for this available to download, but it's written out in a very 'straight' manner and also it's in Eb Major (as opposed to Bb Major as Jim Reeves sings it) so you'll have to not only rejig the rhythms as he sings them, but also transpose the music from Eb to Bb.
If you want to learn to transcribe music and get the rhythms right, subdivide the beats into smaller values, so in this case with it having a 9/8 feel (which can be simplified as 3/4 swing), each beat can be subdivided into three.
I think you ought to get hands on tuition in transcribing music from what you're listening to from a music teacher in your area. I start by working out the rhythms (note durations) first then the notes (pitches) after, but everyone will have their own methods of transcribing music that work for them.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: BGBG
Date: 2016-05-17 22:00
Thanks Chris. I would like to get it myself if I can and I think I will be able to. The 9/8 feel is new to me and if I am understanding it right I am getting a feel for the rhythm. There is no real need to do this except that it is a challenge and I want to learn to play like it is sung but I got stuck. Now I think I am starting to get it. I'm sure I will be able to work it out. Goal is still playing and not writing but I find peripheral skills are necessary at times. I always took the lazy approach - making it easy instead of learning difficult things. Now tackling high notes instead of transposing to lower more easy keys and notes, playing sharps and flats, even if more time and effort. I think I will be happier achieving more.
BTW, googling makes me believe 88 timing is very difficult to read, count, write and learn but I am going to TRY.
Post Edited (2016-05-19 03:01)
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Author: BGBG
Date: 2016-05-24 01:52
Making some progress understanding how to count and play the timing like the song but not quite sure I am writing the notes correctly, or instead making them up to fit. Like instead of two eighth-notes joined with a bar I might have a half and an eighth joined with a bar. Anyway, I like to be correct but playing, not writing is the goal. Timing sounds to me something like "and-uh / 1 , 2, 3, and-uh... if that is possible. Not accustomed to counting while playing and it gets confusing. But it is coming. Not sure if it is 98, 68, or what but that doesnt matter anyway except to know. Looked at some music notes web pages but they were more confusing.
Maybe "A-di / o-o-os-a / mi-go-o-o-a-di/ o-o-os-my / friend ... or something like that. I'm not really sure how to count OR write it. but this is close as I have come.
Post Edited (2016-05-24 02:35)
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2016-05-24 04:22
If you want to write it out in full, then use 9/8 which is three groups of three - so essentially a slow 3/4 but with each beat divided into three.
So your beats are (as you've already worked out) 1-&-a 2-&-a 3-&-a
I'd write it out in 3/4, but specify it's swing, so it has a shuffle feeling with each crotchet/quarter note beat being divided unequally giving 2/3-1/3 instead of 1/2-1/2 as it would be with straight quavers/straight 8s.
This is how I'd write it out:
http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/download.html/1,4883/adios-amigo.png
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
Post Edited (2016-05-28 07:07)
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Author: BGBG
Date: 2016-05-24 06:38
Sounds like you know, Chris, but every time I listen I seem to hear it differently. I am not advanced enough for this. But I do want to write it out so it looks and sounds correct. So I will keep trying with your example. Thanks again.
BG
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Author: BGBG
Date: 2016-05-27 17:40
Chris P :
I wanted you to know that Ii finally succeeded in writing out what seems correct with the help of your example. Thanks again for the help. BG
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