 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Josje
Date: 2016-05-14 19:02
Hello,
I am playing clarinet for 4 months now, according to my teacher I advance faster than most students, due to the fact I used to play recorder for 6-7 years as a child. At the moment I am playing a rental Buffet b12. I really, really love it and plan to buy a wooden clarinet within the next 6 months or so. My question is: is there any reason why I should not buy a clarinet that is meant for ‘advanced student’? Do they require better technique for instance? Harder to blow? I wanted to play clarinet for a very long time, but was not able to due to health issues. As I said I really love it and think I still will be playing ten years from now, then I hopefully will be an advanced amateur. So that is the reason I am thinking of buying a better quality clarinet already.
I live in Europe (no native English speaker, so my excuses for any mistakes in my English), so I don't have access to all the brands you have. The brands/types I am thinking of are Yamaha YCL450, BuffetE12 of Yamaha YCL 650. Buffet E13 is out of my budget range. The cheaper option would be Buffet E11. My teacher doesn’t like Yamaha as much as Buffet, he says they sound ‘sharp’.
My end goal is to be able to play in a local amateur orchestra or band, but I don’t know what type of music yet. The possibilities in my area are quite limited (there aren’t many orchestras or bands), so whatever I buy needs to be suitable for different types of music.'
Thank you for your opinions.
Post Edited (2016-05-14 22:38)
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2016-05-14 19:51
Also consider buying a used pro level clarinet such as a used Buffet RC (or R13), Leblanc LL or Concerto (or any other pro level Leblanc) or a Selmer Series 9, Series 10-10G-10S-10SII, etc. as they will last you much longer than an intermediate level clarinet. But make sure any used clarinet you do buy has been well maintained or is well refurbished.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2016-05-14 20:24
Everything and you and Chris said sounds great. My two cents would just be to stress buying USED - freshly overhauled if possible. used clarinets tend to hold their value consistently and whatever you pay now, you will likely get most of it back even years down the road if you choose to upgrade again.
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
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Author: TomS
Date: 2016-05-14 22:30
Yamaha makes a number of different instruments with different acoustic designs, and therefore, different sound and playing characteristics. So, a generalization about the Yamaha sound is not valid ...
In the United States the Yamaha 650 and Buffet E12F are about the same price. The 650 is brighter, free blowing and centered, more so than the Buffet E12F. Both deserve consideration. Both are well made and a good value in wood instruments. The 450 and 650 are very different playing ...
If you have a way, try the Ridenour Lyrique Libertas, also about the same price ... and a bit better, IMHO, than the Yamaha 450 or 650 or E12F. Warm, responsive, even timbre and great tuning.
Tom
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Author: Josje
Date: 2016-05-14 23:00
Thank you so much for your advice till now.
Ridenour doesn's seem to be available around here.
My problem with buying as used clarinet would be that I am not able to play good enough myself yet to judge if it is a good instrument. I hear that playing throath Bb, a and g sharp will give a good indication about how good the instrument is? I have experimented a lot already to try to get those better sounding on the buffet b12, but it still sound very different from the lower and higher notes.
Do you have other tips? I also know how to check for leaks (the b12 does... even though it is a new one). How can I recognize repaired cracks? On what part of the clarinet they are most likely to be if there are any?
What is the difference in sound between the Yamaha 450 and the 650?
I hear yamaha is very consistent in quality, so the chance of buying a 'monday morning clarinet' is probably less. Is it true you can make a yamaha sound warmer if needed by buying another type of moutpiece?
Post Edited (2016-05-14 23:12)
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Author: seabreeze
Date: 2016-05-15 00:18
Josje,
Yes, Yamaha mouthpieces are nothing to brag about. Much better mouthpieces include Vandoren M13, M13 lyre, M15, D'Adarrio Reserve X0, X5, Clark Fobes Debut, Nova, and a new student model from Walter Grabner. I'm sure you can find Vandorens and Reserves in your country. You may have to order the Fobes and the Grabner from the US. Most of these models would work well on the Buffet, Selmer, Leblanc, Ridenour, and Yamaha clarinets already recommended in this thread. There are also models of Viotto that would work well and are probably easier to get where you live than in the US, but these may cost more.
One way out of your dilemma of not playing well enough to be sure you can recognize a high-quality used clarinet is to find a good teacher or player in your area willing to help you try out the instruments. Local schools with good music programs would be one place to look, and local symphony, opera, or ballet orchestras (or good military bands) would be another.
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Author: Tony F
Date: 2016-05-15 05:13
I think the Yamaha 450 is a great bargain among intermediate horns. Personally I find little difference between it and its more expensive stablemate, the 650. I'd discard the E11 as a choice, unless you get a really good one they're not a great improvement on your B12 and their quality is very variable.
If you decide to look at used pro-level instruments and you're not confident in your own judgement, perhaps you could discuss this with your teacher and get them to help you choose. This path will get you a better instrument for your money.
Tony F.
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Author: TomS
Date: 2016-05-15 05:47
The supplied MPs with Yamaha clarinets are not terrible, but sound a little rough to me. The supplied obligatory MPs are not usually the best. I looked at a used Yamaha 450 they other day with a "Vandoren 5RV-lyre" and the MP was obviously counterfeit, modified or a real production oddball, so be careful ...
Normally you can't go wrong with the closer facing Vandorens like the M13, M13-lyre, M15 and maybe the 5RV-lyre. A 5RV-lyre/88 with a Legere Signature 2.75 or 3 works well for me. I have also found that the standard the 88 profile and and 13 series all play differently.
The Yamaha 450, being within your budget, will serve you well.
Tom
Post Edited (2016-05-15 05:51)
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Author: Geronimo
Date: 2016-05-15 07:44
Josje,
From what you have said I would recommend the Yamaha 650. I will tell you that I haven't personally played this instrument but I have enjoyed Yamaha's higher level clarinets and I know colleges who play them professionally. In addition, Yamaha has a fantastic reputation for building solid, in tune, and consistent instruments and the 650 has received a lot of positive feed back from this community in the past. When my sister is ready to get a step up clarinet, this is what I'll be recommending.
In terms of buying a used instrument, I have mixed feelings. They can be more budget friendly but you don't know what their history is and how well they have been taken care of. You also don't have the option to try all the instruments your considering buying all in one place at the same time. That being said, if you just need "a clarinet" buying used and having it overhauled by a reputable tec can do wonders. (in that case find a college with a good clarinet studio near you and see who the clarinet professor recommends)
Normally I wouldn't recommend new or Yamaha so strongly but from what you said, you are a serious player who wants to enjoy playing clarinet. At the intermediate or entry professional price point, Yamaha is (in my opinion) the best choice. If you or your parents are not keen to buy a new instrument because of price, remember that buying a new instrument is an investment that will serve you as long as you want to pursue music on any level. And if, for what ever reason you change your mind, clarinets tend to keep their value well.
I know I didn't address every point in your original post, but I felt like this was the most important part to go in-depth over. If you have any other questions feel free to ask.
-GM
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Author: gwie
Date: 2016-05-15 12:51
I have a number of students who play the Yamaha YCL-650, and it is an excellent clarinet. From a budget standpoint, I recommend it often because:
1. In my local market, it is just over half the cost of a Buffet R-13.
2. The consistency of the product is really impressive. I don't have to play ten of them to find the "right" one, they're all practically identical.
3. The fit and finish, especially the keywork, is superb.
4. The 650 has a fairly focused, projecting sound with the standard barrel. I prefer something with a bit less resistance, and I've had good results with Backun, Fobes, and Muncy barrels on the 650.
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Author: gwie
Date: 2016-05-15 12:51
I have a number of students who play the Yamaha YCL-650, and it is an excellent clarinet. From a budget standpoint, I recommend it often because:
1. In my local market, it is just over half the cost of a Buffet R-13.
2. The consistency of the product is really impressive. I don't have to play ten of them to find the "right" one, they're all practically identical.
3. The fit and finish, especially the keywork, is superb.
4. The 650 has a fairly focused, projecting sound with the standard barrel. I prefer something with a bit less resistance, and I've had good results with Backun, Fobes, and Muncy barrels on the 650.
Post Edited (2016-05-15 12:52)
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Author: WhitePlainsDave
Date: 2016-05-15 17:44
Hi Josje:
Your original question seems equally focused on not only which pro/closer to pro clarinet you should purchase, but *if* you should effect that purchase in the short term.
Posters have already commented well on their clarinet model recommendations, but far less talk has occurred on whether, and what factors to use as it regards parting with the money and buying a better instrument in the first place.
First off, for you, yes, a *wood* clarinet would probably be the next best step, but that's because as a general rule wood clarinets are built better, more so than (in my opinion) wood, as a material necessarily plays better clarinets made of some alternate materials. It's unfortunate that Ridenour clarinets are not easy available for you to try first, though they have a great return policy. Backun, as does Buffet, makes strong models of exclusively not, or only partially wood content. But i digress.
There's no reason to think a professional model harder to play their your current rental. You may not yet be able to appreciate the instrument's potential, but as a general rule, it's basic play presents no greater difficultly (provided it's in a decent state of repair) than an entry level model.
As I see it, the only reasons you should not buy a more advanced instrument comes down to your own personal desire for one, and the costs to you of not having that money for other things. I would encourage your use of someone knowledgeable in purchase, as clarinets can vary widely as it regards their response and ability (player limitations notwithstanding) to play in tune.
Purchasing a strong instrument, if history is any indication, and taking care of it, may result in little depreciation in value (adjusted for inflation) if your plans change due to interest or sadly, health related ability to play as previously reported. As with owning a home, if you are financing, at least your payments will go to building equity in the instrument, rather than paying a lessor with nothing at the end for you to show for it. Of course repairs now become your issue to deal with, though wear and tear problems usually won't bankrupt you.
I'd hesitate though from financing because paying interest on goods that aren't essential, that don't or may not appreciate in value is not only discouraged by financial planners, but an example by such professionals of purchases you really can't afford if you have to finance them.
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Author: TomS
Date: 2016-05-15 21:57
Ditto on the 650 ... if it fits your budget. I have a friend that owns one and I borrow it when I get a chance and enjoy. I've pondered buying one myself, but not called my credit card in, yet ... I played Yamaha professionally back in the dark ages and didn't regret purchasing them ... and the service shop (Buffet fans, mostly) were complimentary as well.
Too bad the Ridenour instruments aren't available.
Tom
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Author: Josje
Date: 2016-05-16 00:53
Thank you for all your good advice till now. I don't need to finance it. I am able to pay for it from my savings (and still will be able to replace my washingmachine, refridgerator etc. from my savings as well, if needed). But for me this is a lot of money to spend, so I do need to think hard about what is the best option.
Post Edited (2016-05-16 00:55)
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Author: tucker ★2017
Date: 2016-05-16 01:45
Ridenour has a distributor in the UK:
http://www.lesliecraven.co.uk/store/ridenour-clarinet-products/
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