 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: two toots ★2017
Date: 2016-05-14 18:28
Hi, this is my first post and I have a sensitive question.
I'm in my 60s and my daughter (24) and I been taking clarinet lessons from a very nice man for 4 years. My daughter has Down Syndrome so our situation is somewhat unusual. Our teacher is a very nice person but we drive an hour and a half for an hour lesson (I increased the length of the lesson to include me and to try to gain more content) which is lucky to consist of 15 minutes of instruction with the rest of the hour spent yakking about unrelated topics. I feel like he wants to fill the hour and collect the money but he really doesn't want to teach us.
I think we need to move to a new teacher but I am afraid that most instructors will find it difficult to tailor lessons to our needs.
So what do professionals think? Can your expectations be modified to include a handicapped student's ability? We practice an hour a day but she has limited verbal comprehension.
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Author: bill28099
Date: 2016-05-14 20:05
As a senior who still takes lessons I have a couple of comments. I happen to drive 3 hours for a two hour lesson so only do them 3 or 4 times a year. You should take more control of how the lesson is taught. Prepare enough material so the teacher doesn't have time to gab. As an adult you pick the material. For me it is usually a page or two of Kroepsch and a duet or two that is played with the teacher. First I play my duet part and then we do it together. Have lots of questions about the music prepared. Some teachers just don't cope well with adult students. A student might not complain that 45 minutes is wasted given their parents are paying but an adult should not let it happen. I don't see why a handicapped person couldn't be part of a lesson as long as they are responsive to suggestions and are not disruptive to the whole process. I would suggest finding a retired university clarinet professor or maybe a retired HS band person who specialized in woodwinds.
A great teacher gives you answers to questions
you don't even know you should ask.
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Author: two toots ★2017
Date: 2016-05-15 00:08
Here's the crux of the issue: I don't want a fight. I'm not usually averse to confrontation but I don't want one in this situation. I've tried hints but he doesn't get the message. From things he has said I believe he thinks he is "counseling" me.
I have long looked at these lessons as "an End point" and I don't want to lose that as we need the goal, but since we've reached the end of Rubank Intermediate he seems to have no further plan. It's not that I think he has nothing more to offer, but he seems disinclined to offer it and I think his ego will not allow him to send us on to another teacher.
My daughter, who plays as well or better than I, really likes him and looks forward to her lesson every week. I don't want to rob her of that but I'm feeling taken advantage of and condescended to.
And a very big "yes" to the fact that I very much FEAR trying a new teacher as not all teachers in our past (11 years for her) have been supportive. It is a real battle for me to keep going forward when I know so many people think that someone with Down Syndrome can't do this. She can. She does.
And she has never refused to practice!
So I probably should not have posted this as the potential for negative comments is so very great but I could really use some reassurance that there are teachers out there willing to help us go on.
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Author: Wes
Date: 2016-05-15 00:16
How about trying the standard Klose method book. It has some easy duets in it and some mechanism exercises, 1-2-4 to a beat. It can be supplemented by long tone, scale, and chord exercises written out by the teacher.
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Author: WhitePlainsDave
Date: 2016-05-15 00:29
Jo--first off--I appreciate the challenges you and your daughter face.
With that said, many factors are unknown by us, which quite frankly you may not want to offer on a public venue regarding where on the [Down's] spectrum of intelligence you daughter lies. I would guess her extremely high functioning simply by virtue of her ability to play clarinet at all.
(If I may take a step backwards for a moment, allow me to assume that your daughter's cardiologist has "green lighted" her for such activity given the concomitant heart defects often found in Down's patients and the aerobic nature of this venture.)
It's very hard for me to gauge whether the current teacher fills lesson time with banter because *he* feels your daughter can only take in so much, or whether you simply need a more effective teacher....although regardless one would have to acknowledge limited reason for his tendency for banter when its your turn for lesson time, assuming your daughter not a distraction.
I have a friend who I gig with (in NY) this Sunday with her doctorate in music programs for special needs students. Her focus is on brain injury from trauma and age but I'll ask her about finding other teachers in your Central PA area. The bboard's David Blumberg, out of the greater Phili area, albeit a distance from you, is a wealth of knowledge. You may want to reach out to him if he doesn't chime in.
As for teachers: it's your money Jo. I understand this is a complex situation where finding a teacher with the right temperament is challenging. On your side is Skype (David does Skype lessons). The ability for lessons to occur with the best people for this task, even if they are across the country, is in our hands now thanks to technology.
Feel absolutely nothing but it not only being your right, but your obligation to get your money's worth out of lessons--again, to the level that your daughter can handle.
It sounds to me like if she's finished Rubank Intermediate that her abilities are far exceeding this teacher's willingness to not only take her to the next level, but that level is well within her reach to grasp.
All the best. I in no way profit from referrals to David.
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2016-05-15 01:16
I have a sister who is a wonderful, high functioning. Downs syndrome woman. I commiserate with you about the teacher.
As you already know but some of the posters may not, the visit to the teacher is a high point in their life, a bit different than most students. Changing the teacher will be somewhat traumatic. But ... you know best. You've noted that the teacher has given up.
In my personal opinion, only because I know how my sister reacts, I would say that you need to carefully try a few new teachers. I don't think they especially need to be special needs type teachers, but teachers that are very empathetic. Distance type lessons I think would be counter productive in the case of a Downs syndrome child - in my experience one-on-one in the real world works wonders.
Again, that's only my informed opinion based on a sample size of one sister that has loved me unconditionally for over 50 years. You know exactly what I mean :-)
Good luck!
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Author: Philip Caron
Date: 2016-05-15 01:58
With respect and best wishes, I'd like to indulge my curiosity, please. I have no knowledge of Down's Syndrome.
If the student has limited verbal comprehension, then are successful lessons focused more on demonstration as opposed to explanation? Or is there some other focus? I feel it's very likely that lessons could be conducted successfully with satisfaction to all parties, but it might take a teacher who can and will alter their accustomed method, maybe significantly. What that would specifically entail I have no idea.
Maybe the teacher in this case has hit something of a "wall" in their skill of communicating the finickier niceties of more advanced playing.
"two", thank you for coming forward with this interesting problem.
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Author: two toots ★2017
Date: 2016-05-15 16:09
Thank you for the kind replies.
To explain my daughter's condition is pretty complex.
She is fortunate not to have cardiac issues (except for at birth) but she is definitely not high functioning. My theory is that parents of less high functioning parents get overwhelmed and just stay home, but she is one of the lowest functioning athletes in Special Olympics in our area.
At the age of 21 handicapped are no longer able to attend school. In order to keep her grounded in the real world,(she has imaginary friends) I began to take her to a music school to keep her playing her clarinet.
Initially I went into the room at the lesson because I need to protect her at all times. She has no ability to protect herself or report abuse. But I also found out what she needed to do for the next lesson so I could help her through the week. And I now have yet another debt to my daughter for introducing me to the joy of playing clarinet!
We practice together and (dare I admit it) I have been writing the note letters for her because she has problems with depth perception. We are working on actually reading the music at a lower level than what she can play with that "cheat".
There are clarinet specialists at the music school but we have not been referred to them and I am sure there will be hard feelings when or if I ask. I guess I needed input to know if I'm reasonable to resent paying for all the unrelated talk. I signed up for longer lessons in order to be fair to the teacher but there is no value to the extended time.
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2016-05-15 16:55
two toots wrote:
> There are clarinet specialists at the music school but we have
> not been referred to them and I am sure there will be hard
> feelings when or if I ask.
There are already hard feelings. You think you're being taken advantage of.
> I guess I needed input to know if
> I'm reasonable to resent paying for all the unrelated talk. I
> signed up for longer lessons in order to be fair to the teacher
> but there is no value to the extended time.
Yes, you are reasonable. You have a difficult decision.
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Author: JonTheReeds
Date: 2016-05-15 18:26
With a different instrument, I had a teacher whose first words were always, "what do you want to do today?" and who spent a lot of time googling things that seemed more useful to him than me. He was unable to provide any sort of framework or progression plan and was deeply uncomfortable, even hostile, to my constant reply, "what is my weakest point, and what do I need to do to improve on it?"
At the time I just thought we didn't click, but looking back I think he was lazy, and didn't have any interest nor capability in teaching
I didn't stay with him very long, and interestingly the lesson was also an hour long
I appreciate that it's difficult to fully understand your situation but ultimately you are paying and deserve a good lesson, and although to some extent you have to trust your teacher it does seem that you and your daughter are not getting what you need
Time for a different teacher
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The older I get, the better I was
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2016-05-15 20:17
JonTheReeds wrote:
> With a different instrument, I had a teacher whose first words
> were always, "what do you want to do today?"
>
> At the time I just thought we didn't click, but looking back I
> think he was lazy, and didn't have any interest nor capability
> in teaching
> it does seem that you and your daughter are not getting
> what you need
>
And, yet, that question can also be the crucial to a useful process. One of the biggest tripping points in a student-teacher relationship is when their agendas don't match. Of course, the teacher's response needs to be constructive. Many adults (or in this case her caregiver) have some idea of what they want to accomplish through formal study. The best result comes when the teacher is able to align his own goals as a teacher to support those the student brings with him.
Your guy may have been using the question as a cop-out, but the question itself, if especially if asked at the beginning of a student's study with a teacher and responded to appropriately, is an important one (though not necessarily as a lesson opener each week).
Karl
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Author: JonTheReeds
Date: 2016-05-15 21:59
Karl, I absolutely agree. My current clarinet teacher, with whom I've been with for 5 years is fantastic. We have regular chats where we talk about next steps. She then advises and helps me to get there, and I put in the practice. Also, over the years I've noticed that she seems to have a framework that governs when and how she prioritises things. She is also passionate about music and cares about her students which is as important as anything
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The older I get, the better I was
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Author: Lelia Loban ★2017
Date: 2016-05-15 22:56
While I have no experience as a music teacher and I'm an amateur as a musician, I do want to butt in here a bit. I'm sure Mark knows way more about this than I do, but years ago, before there was any such thing as Skype, I volunteered in an after-school day care program (in a room in a community center) for kids with physical and mental disabilities who needed somewhere safe to stay until their parents came home from work. Abilities varied a great deal, from kids who were learning to read and write to kids who were uncommunicative and close to bedridden.
The volunteers did not consider ourselves babysitters. We wanted to help these kids find their potential and reach it. Some of the kids had Down Syndrome. It seemed to me that one-on-one interaction was important: looking the kids in their eyes, speaking to them directly and encouraging two-way communication. My gut feeling was that these kids understood when someone patronized them. They couldn't verbalize that impression the way two toots did, and I wasn't always sure the kids resented being patronized -- usually they just got quiet and seemed sad or distant, not angry -- but something told me those kids *knew*. They learned much better when treated with dignity and respect by a teacher who spoke to them directly, instead of talking around the kids, to their parents or guardians, as if the kids themselves were inanimate. Maybe Skype would work, too -- but based on those experiences back in the day, I just have a feeling that a live teacher right there in the room would work better.
Lelia
http://www.scoreexchange.com/profiles/Lelia_Loban
To hear the audio, click on the "Scorch Plug-In" box above the score.
Post Edited (2016-05-15 22:56)
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Author: clarinetguy ★2017
Date: 2016-05-16 07:30
I knew Dr. Behrens many years ago, although not well. She's a wonderful person--and clarinet is her instrument. I think she'd be a great person to contact.
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Author: two toots ★2017
Date: 2016-05-16 15:55
Thank you all so much.
Yes, it appears that it is time to move on carefully.
I would like to share two things if I may.
There are so many reasons to play clarinet. Some might not be obvious to everyone. For a handicapped person it can be an activity that does not place the participant in danger and affords a real sense of accomplishment. I do not pretend that it doesn't take more time and effort to teach these individuals, or that teachers don't have to be satisfied with occasional limited success, but I do wish more caregivers and teachers would recognize the potential our "kids" have to succeed in this venture. It was quite a struggle to get school band directors to allow my daughter to participate! (Very long story.)
As to my daughter being "disruptive" the most disruptive thing she has ever done was to start playing her clarinet while the teacher was telling another tale. I bragged to her father that she did that! Good hint don't ya think?
Thank you Mark for sharing. I think you understand more than most.
And Dave, I will contact your friend soon. I'm feeling a bit raw and exposed right now but I'll forge on.
Thanks again, Jo
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Author: Nessie1
Date: 2016-05-16 16:14
Two toots, I'd just like to wish you and your daughter well. It is wonderful that you have found an activity that you can both enjoy and you have every right to lessons which are as progressive and productive as they can be for the two of you for the good money that you pay and it does not sound as if you are getting that as the moment.
I just wonder whether you might have success asking about teachers from the other angle - the Down's Syndrome/Special needs one - ie perhaps posting on forums for that as well. In that case you might get recommendations from parents/carers who know of people or services which have proven success/experience with people like your daughter. However, this may not necessarily be the only route I guess.
All the best - keep playing.
Vanessa.
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