 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2016-05-05 06:11
I have the fortune of playing a Buffet Divine at work (this clarinet is excellent, and cause work provided it, no worries about adjustments or overhauls as it's all paid for).
The issue is with the fork Bnatural/F# sliver in the right hand (pictured and featured on THIS exercise.
It's so extremely sensitive that any slight touching of it (even from the side) causes a slight leak which effects long B and C. Typically this happens when I approach long B from above. My right middle finger will roll slightly downwards on the tonehole and lightly touch the sliver key, which will pop it up EVER so slightly and cause the B and C not to speak. Never on any other clarinet, but the pressure on this key is insanely light, not to mention the key is a little thicker than other clarinets.
So before I grab a spring hook and bend the &*^% out of it to prevent this.....is this the right way to do this?
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2016-05-05 07:13
Grab the spring hook and bend. It's not difficult. If that's not enough, replace the spring with a stiffer one.
If you're nervous, go to the instrument repair people and have them do it. They might also grind the key narrower.
Tom Ridenour cut off almost all of this key on his clarinet, leaving only a 1/4" stub. You need to hit it near that end anyway, since laying your finger over it shades the tone holes and makes the B and F# flat.
Ken Shaw
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2016-05-05 08:21
You'll have to remove the RH ring keys and the RH3 cross B/F# key (or 'sliver key') to give the spring more of a bend as there's hardly any room between the spring catch and the joint surface to be able to unhitch the spring to put more of a bend in it.
Make the bend in the spring form an arc over its entire length instead of a sharp bend from where it emerges from the pillar. The spring should then straighten out when it's hitched in place and shouldn't form an inverted arc or have any other bends along it.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
Post Edited (2016-05-05 08:22)
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2016-05-05 12:01
Yeah, you need to take the key off and use need nose pliers to impart a greater curve to the spring. I usually concentrate on the area closer to the pillar (still a curve, not a straight angle bend, but you don't really want a perfect curve either).
And I'm the one who adjusted that .......correctly......
You're welcome.
..................Paul Aviles
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2016-05-05 13:28
Attachment: needle_springs 001.JPG (692k)
Yeah - more of the curve nearer the pillar end than the free end. See attachment - both needle springs will straighten out when they're engaged and revert back to their curved form when disengaged.
The best way to put a curve in a needle spring is to remove it and mount the flattened end in a hand vice and use round jaw pliers to put the curve in it - by drawing the pliers along the length of the spring in the direction of the bend rather than bending it into shape with the pliers held static and done bit by bit.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
Post Edited (2016-05-05 13:29)
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2016-05-05 18:38
Thanks for that image Chris.
That's the ideal shape of a round spring. I've dealt with some repair jobs that have the spring all curved and the resultant feel is more limp than anything.
..............Paul Aviles
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2016-05-06 03:23
Quote:
Yeah, you need to take the key off and use need nose pliers to impart a greater curve to the spring. I usually concentrate on the area closer to the pillar (still a curve, not a straight angle bend, but you don't really want a perfect curve either).
And I'm the one who adjusted that .......correctly......
You're welcome.
..................Paul Aviles lol! Looks like we just missed each other as you retired JUST before I moved to the band!!!
And thanks for adjusting it .... correctly .... but I just don't have the same finger curvature or discipline I guess!!! It's just too light!!!
I also hit it on the side when needed (so as not to cover or even partially cover tone holes). I can see the value in shaving my personal horn's one down a bit.
Thanks for the tips. So a simple bend is all it takes. Looks like I know what I'm doing this weekend!
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2016-05-06 06:45
That was a little curt on my part.
There are two correct answers to a problem like that. As a woodwind repair person (or repair advice) it is incumbent on him to do what YOU want so that you get the best results the way you play. So I don't necessarily mean to be rude. I had a friend that once said "you can cut the lever part of that key off and I'd never miss it." And in fact I probably only used it a dozen times in the last 40 years.
The other answer is from the perspective of what is most mechanically sound to offer the quickest and most sure footed response from all the keys on the horn. I take my cue from Bill Brannen of Chicago. For keys that remain closed, you only need enough tension so that they do not "blow open" (and get a nice action). This works great on all the small padded keys. The only exception is the large "Ab/Eb" pad. This needs to be a little more taught than you would expect given the keys around it because the large surface actually DOES lend itself to "blowing open" slightly. It is really noticeable as a lessening of the resonance in the lower half of the horn if not adjusted properly.
The keys that stay open can be VERY lightly adjusted (just a bit more than flaccid because you need a little "authority" to the movement and no bounce when you release). For the open keys it is important to use a heavier key oil (30 weight) to complete the ideal action.
So on the critical side of the advice, I would say that you should avoid bumping the key (a matter of giving it attention when you practice S-L-O-W-L-Y).
I hope things are going well in Huntsville...........I really loved that town.
.................Paul Aviles
P.S. If you need any repair help, you can run down to South Eastern Music (just ten minutes from post), and they have been known to do little emergency fixes pro bono.
Post Edited (2016-05-06 06:49)
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2016-05-06 08:43
The problem seems to come from when I go back and forth between it and my personal clarinet. And it's not a problem with pressure, but rather of the thickness of the fork key. The divine's sliver key is noticeably thicker than other horns, and therefor lends itself to bumping more. So my finger placement was certainly good enough for most horns, but tighter tolerances and less room for error, well, shows the error.
Neither here nor there. I'll probably make it need a little more force. It's not a key or lever that would hinder me if I added some resistance to it.
Great horn though. The rest of the clarinetists are jealous that I snagged it from the supply room, but hey, they spend less time on clarinet than I do. It's only fair the guy that plays clarinet the most, gets 1st pick of clarinet.
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2016-05-06 14:04
Ok, here is what happens to me. My fingers are so fat (along with the rest of me) that I need to adjust where the sliver IS to fit in between. I probably bent it a little lower than it was originally (or.....maybe I didn't, the way you describe hitting your middle finger in the first post).
If you'r "up to it," you can take your fingers and just apply pressure in the needed direction and it should move to some degree [you didn't hear that from me ;-) ]
Oh, and if someone else hasn't beaten you to it, the Buffet Vintage there is simply the best horn I had ever played. I think retirees should be able to take their favorite horn home with them........right?!!?
.................Paul Aviles
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2016-05-10 06:46
Paul Aviles wrote:
> If you'r "up to it," you can take your fingers and just apply
> pressure in the needed direction and it should move to some
> degree [you didn't hear that from me ;-) ]
> .................Paul Aviles
>
Done. I shifted the forked key just a HAIR down and out of the way and it works perfectly.
And Paul, I ALSO wish we could retire with it. But it looks like more and more bands are least being more open to the idea of laterally transferring instruments. So at least you can bring a favorite horn with you for MORE than one duty station.
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
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