 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: ej6
Date: 2016-04-27 09:22
Hi all, I've been looking in to purchasing an Eb clarinet for a while but as I don't have the need to play it very often (compared to my Bb & A) I can't really justify going out & buying a brand new one so I've been hunting online for something second hand.
I came across a Buffet Eb clarinet - serial number is C657 so it is from 1889. From the pictures I cannot see "HP" or "LP" marked on it anywhere (I have asked the seller to confirm if that is on it anywhere) as obviously it wouldn't be a great deal of use to me if it is HP. There is also no separate barrel joint - it is all one piece with the rest of the body of the clarinet (bell is separate). It also says "Brevetes SGDG" below the Buffet stamped on the barrel area. The clarinet is Boehm system (i.e. not Albert).
Does anyone know how else I might be able to tell if it HP or LP (if there are no HP/LP markings - I'm not able to try it myself either as the listing is overseas). Also, can anyone tell what their experience is of playing Buffet's of around this vintage? My R-13s (Bb & A) are from the 1990s-2000s, and with Eb's I've only tried an YCL-681 II Eb clarinet which was only a few years old.
In short, would you buy or steer clear? I know everyone has different tastes/preferences in terms of models & brands etc but any Eb clarinet buying advice or 2nd hand instrument shops you'd recommend contacting would be greatly appreciated. I'd been hoping to find an R-13 or similar (e.g. YCL-681) second hand in good condition but no such luck thus far.
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Author: bradfordlloyd
Date: 2016-04-27 15:01
I love vintage instruments, and had a similar early 1900s Buffet stencil Eb clarinet (with a cool wrap-around register key) that I played for several years in a wind ensemble and loved it. I had no issues with the horn or pitch (it was, of course, LP).
That said, what stood out to me in your post is that it has no barrel (I've seen this before on older instruments). I love the idea and coolness of it (much as I loved the wrap-around register key on mine), but on Eb with all of its pitchiness, not being able to change/adjust the barrel when needed could be a big disadvantage.
Just my two cents....
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Author: ClarinettyBetty
Date: 2016-04-27 16:31
If you are unable to try it, I really would steer clear. There is one pro (hey, I lucked out and it plays well), but many cons of buying an untested clarinet--with no barrel, and an Eb clarinet to boot!
Keep checking eBay or ask around locally and put the word out. I got mine for very cheap, but I had to wait for the right deal. Is it a Buffet? No, but it plays in tune and does the job!
-----------------------
Eb: 1972 Buffet BC20
Bb: Selmer Paris Presence
A: Selmer Paris Presence
Bass: 1977 LeBlanc
https://gentrywoodwinds.com
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Author: donald
Date: 2016-04-27 16:45
My fiance performs on period instruments for various groups in Europe and one of her many instruments is a Buffet E flat similar to that you describe (the "barrel-less" clarinets were very common in that time). Her E flat plays better in tune at A=440 than my R13, the disadvantage being that she can't play it at a high pitch (the main group she plays with tune at A=442, and then go sharp) as it's not possible to put a shorter barrel on... she currently has MY R13 in Paris with her, using a shorter barrel custom made by Maurice Reviol to enable her to "get up there".
There is no way of knowing- without play testing- if this one is as good as hers, but it's a possibility
dn
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Author: ej6
Date: 2016-04-28 05:46
Many thanks for your replies. If it wasn't "barrel-less" then it might have been worth the risk even without being to play it first because it was reasonably priced & I'd have a lot more options as you say in terms of managing pitch issues. The seller replied & said they couldn't find any markings to confirm whether it is HP or LP so all things considered I think I will keep looking & waiting for something else to come up because of the concerns you raised. Thanks so much for sharing your knowledge & suggestions
Post Edited (2016-04-28 07:39)
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Author: Jeroen
Date: 2016-04-28 14:08
Barrel-less clarinets can be tuned by pulling the mouthpiece. No problem.
However, these old clarinets may need a non-standard mouthpiece (bore, chamber) to get in tune. Could be fixed by changing the internal dimensions of a modern mouthpiece (if you know what you are doing).
HP is the real problem. To verify, you can ask the seller to measure the total length and compare it with a modern Eb clarinet.
I owned a Buffet A-clarinet with integrated barrel. Internal tuning wasn't very good. I've sold it.
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Author: donald
Date: 2016-04-28 15:26
I see you have an NZ location- was this clarinet for sale in NZ? If so I'd be interested in testing it out...
dn
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Author: ej6
Date: 2016-04-28 19:29
Thanks again for adding to this with further comments/suggestions
Jeroen - If I was to ask them to measure it then versus a modern Eb clarinet do you know what a standard length would be (I'm guessing it should still be obvious if it is an HP regardless of the variation in barrel lengths between modern models). All the seller was able to tell me when ask them to check for markings was "Afraid I can't find the markings, it's quite old. However, I did play it with some local concert bands and we tuned to 441 and it sounded fine"...
Donald - unfortunately no this clarinet is in Canada! But yes I am in NZ, currently reside right down the bottom in Southland. My primary reasons for wanting one is for chamber work & for musical theatre shows (playing for Mary Poppins in July so was hoping to find something of my own before then rather than having to try hunt down one to borrow/hire again).
Post Edited (2016-04-28 20:05)
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Author: Tony F
Date: 2016-04-28 21:30
A low pitch Eb should be around 49Cm including the mouthpiece. The high pitch is about 3 Cm shorter.
Tony F.
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Author: Jeroen
Date: 2016-04-29 11:51
I measured my Eb clarinets, without the mouthpiece:
-Buffet (~1920), wrap around register key with separate barrel: 43.0 cm
-Selmer Bundy Resonite: 42.5 cm
The Buffet plays wonderful in tune, even the altimisso!
The Bundy needs a big bore mouthpiece for optimal tuning (I still have to experiment with this).
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Author: donald
Date: 2016-04-29 15:12
How much do they want for the E flat, if you don't mind sharing that information? Mary Poppins is a tough show, I subbed for it in the Civic a few years back and had to play it with no rehearsal, yikes.
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Author: KenJarczyk
Date: 2016-04-29 16:18
Here is a great Eb at a good price:
http://www.hornstash.com/products/Used-Buffet-E11-Eb-Clarinet-1034XX-2799.html?cPath=5_43_54_586
And rather worth it, too!
(Note: I do know the folks @ HornStash, very nice people. I have played the Eb in this note. And, no, it is not my property being sold! Just like to help folks find a very nice instrument!)
Ken Jarczyk
Woodwinds Specialist
Eb, C, Bb, A & Bass Clarinets
Soprano, Alto, Tenor & Baritone Saxophones
Flute, Alto Flute, Piccolo
Post Edited (2016-04-29 20:25)
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Author: ej6
Date: 2016-04-29 18:05
Thanks Tony & Jeroen for the measurements! I have emailed the seller to kindly ask if they would measure it so will see what they say.
Donald - they are wanting $1,000NZD incl shipping for it so that's why I was thinking it could be worth the gamble...only others I've seen pop up to date are a 1962 R13 with 3 barrels (one repaired) for around $3,000 & an E11 that's basically brand new & they want $2,200. Can an E11 actually be made into something decent with a better barrel, mouthpiece etc? I have read so many reviews saying just not to bother with them (personally never tried one though).
Yikes indeed for no rehearsal! I enjoy the variety of the scoring in the pit for that combo (Bb, Bass, Eb) - played Reed IV for Phantom of the Opera last year.
Post Edited (2016-04-29 18:06)
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Author: ej6
Date: 2016-05-01 10:15
Thanks Ken for the recommendation Unfortunately, for me in lil old NZ the currency conversion makes that Eb only $100 less than it would be brand new to buy here in NZ (so probably plus shipping it would be the same).
For the 1899 Buffet they've replied & said "From the top joint to the bell joint it is 35 centimeters. To the bottom of the bell makes it 43 centimeters. Whole thing with mouthpiece is 50 cm. Hope that helps!" - so sounds like it is LP.
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Author: Tony F
Date: 2016-05-01 18:32
There may not be much on offer in NZ, but have you considered checking the Oz iteration of that well-known auction site, There are generally some Eb's there and shipping across the Tasman isn't too expensive.
Tony F.
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Author: modernicus
Date: 2016-05-03 05:56
I have a 1906 version exactly like it. I saw one go for around $900 a while ago, which surprised me a little. Mine is exactly the condition it came to me in, covered in crud (smoke residue?) straight from France- but in remarkable good condition considering.
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