 The Clarinet BBoard
|
Author: jrain54
Date: 2016-04-24 03:30
Hi all,
I use a tuner to tune up, but when my middle register is perfectly in tune, the lower register is very flat. Then if I pull out the barrel to compensate for the lower register, the higher register will become sharp..
For example, I have my instrument with me right now and I can play low C in tune, C on the stave in tune, but my high C is sharp - and so are the notes above my high C.
I've noticed with my clarinet it takes a few minutes of warming up to get better in tune, and it is relatively good, I'm just wondering if it's possible I can do something to get all of my notes in tune..?
Thanks!
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Caroline Smale
Date: 2016-04-24 03:42
If you pull out your barrel the notes at the top end of the tube will become flatter than the notes further down, so your C above stave would become flatter than low C and flatter than low C on the stave.
Firstly it is important to be fully warmed up before checking any tuning.
Secondly you do have to learn to play the clarinet in tune. Even the most expensive clarinet is not perfectly in tune with itself because it's a physical impossibility to make one that is.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: WhitePlainsDave
Date: 2016-04-24 04:24
"I'm just wondering if it's possible I can do something to get all of my notes in tune..?"
Well, yes and no.
The no: although some players and makers might disagree, the clarinet's design represents a compromise regarding where, for example, tone holes are placed.
Take your low "F." It's often out of tune. Take your throat Bb: in an ideal world it might be better in pitch and sound better if the register key didn't serve the double purpose of producing the higher notes, and serving as the difference between throat "A" and "Bb." Still more the C#/G# tone hole has to be placed high enough on the upper joint of the clarinet that when drilled (at least into a wood instrument) it doesn't crack. These things aren't the product of slipshod work, but compromises with other notes and clarinet manufacture cost.
And many of these things have been address over the years by dedicated Bb holes, low "F" correction keys, and C#/G# tone holes in the tenon that connects the joints. Such stuff is pricey, and will only take you so far though.
Like Norman said, is so many words, near perfection of pitch cannot lie solely with the instrument maker.
The yes:
First, on a warmed up instrument we must turn properly, in sequence and accept compromises.
Tom Ridenour's video on this is as good as any:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aYx3pj0L790
(and might I add that Tom's come pretty close to producing in tune clarinets.)
Second, we must always listen, to ourselves and others. Remember, if the ensemble is playing a few cents sharp you are NOT in tune unless you match them, not the tuner. Pitch change can be addressed by snugging more mouthpiece to increase pitch, and vice versa.
Third, few repair techs have true experience in this, but on wood clarinets, sometimes adjustments can be made to tone holes by either filling in some space, or changing the profile of the hole on the inside of the clarinet (undercutting tone holes). Results tend to be permanent, or often not worth the money on less than professional instruments. Many posts exist for searching on the bboard regarding how this helps not only pitch, but note shape and color, and is indicated for sharpening the lower notes, while ideally, minimally affecting the higher register enabled ones.
Fourth, sometimes change to the pitch, color, and shape of a note can be achieved by different/alternate fingerings.
Fifth, barrels and mouthpieces can also help, but come with their share of tradeoffs as well (see Norman's comments about barrels, for example).
Last for now, search the bboard for tuning rings. They're useful to fill the gap between clarinet sections that are spread apart when pitch runs high.
The clarinet, including its pitch is a metaphor for life: it has its difficulties and compromises.
Next,
Post Edited (2016-04-24 04:26)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2016-04-24 05:38
Keep in mind it is MUCH easier to lip down to pitch than bite up to pitch. So the prevailing guide is to keep the notes that tend to be flat at pitch and just relax on the ones that tend higher.
I suggest tuning to your open "G." This for me is the most average note of all. Get that one sounding great while perfectly centered in your embouchure (not too loose; not too pinched). Once that is set your whole range will tend to be more even. Still, as said above, you'll humor the higher notes downward. Think about it, you NEVER want to be biting (and biting unsuccessfully at that) to come up to pitch.........NEVER.
..............Paul Aviles
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Agomongo
Date: 2016-04-25 07:44
I've been having intonation issues for quite awhile, but I've learned to deal with it. Of course I'm not a master at it, but it doesn't mean I don't have anything worth while to add.
I'm going to start off saying what my teacher has said to me, "If every note was right in tune then the clarinet would sound bad." It's what gives all instruments their character and sound. With that in mind it's also impossible to have every note play in tune. Naturally the clarinet, and just about every woodwind instrument, MUST be adjusted out of tune to play in tune. Unless you're willing to buy instruments that have extra keys and/or sacrifice something to have EVERY single note play in tune.
Like what Mr. Aviles said it's better to lip down (but not too much.)
Also, when tuning it's actually better to tune to a drone and not look at the tuner. It's also VERY important to remember to keep the embouchure and lip pressure as natural as possible. When tuning the instrument don't compensate by changing the embouchure, because that's not tuning. Compensate by pulling in and out with the barrel and middle joint. Also, like I've stated before DO NOT look at a tuner. We subconsciously adjust when we look at the tuner. In addition to that when we use our eyes we learn to feel the instrument and where everything should be, but we should instead hear and adjust. It's extremely important to hear the pitch and phrase in your heard before you actually play it. That's something I'm constantly trying to practice.
I usually like to tune the G and C. Then I tune the long pipe B by pulling out from the bell.
I've made the mistake of thinking that to make notes sharper I needed to bite (or rather push the reed in with my teeth), however that's far from the truth. In order to make a note sharper the corners of the lips and the top and bottom lip need to become tighter. Think of a hoodie with a string and when you pull of the string it becomes tighter. In order to make a note flatter the embouchure needs to relax and the jaw needs to drop down more.
An exercise from Larry Guy's book is to play an open G and to try to get the G as flat as possible then to make it sharper by at least 10 cents (if you can go higher go for it!) then to relax and bring it back in tune. He said once this is mastered to then start doing it for other notes.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2016-04-25 17:04
You are generally on to something there "Agomongo," but I want to clarify a bit.
The first problem is the suggestion that you 'don't tune with the embouchure.' That's kinda sorta where you do ALL your fine tuning. Of course you need to find a good average first. That's why I suggest the open 'G' business. In general it is a good idea to have a couple of mm of space available to push in if needed, so when I have a good pitch going, it is with the open 'G' nice and relaxed (in the "middle" of my embouchure tension scale) with the 2mm of barrel pulled out (roughly).
The goal is to have all the other notes fall easily within your embouchure's ability to adjust one way or the other.
I also agree that listening to the concert "Bb" pitch while playing "C" scales (or arpeggios, or Kroepsch exercises) is really good ear training. However, when you are first developing your ear, it is harder to hear "SHARP," particularly with respect to higher notes (the altissimo specifically) and you should bounce back and forth between the meter and the audible pitch to reconcile that difficulty.
Lastly, I am suspect of any recommendations to "drop the jaw." To me that means that you are (for lack of better description) executing what would sound like going from "EEEE" to a "YAWWWW" posture. In that extreme example (and I've seen some educators actually do that) what happens is that you are placing your lower lip further down the reed at "YAWWW." I say that there is ONE ideal spot along the reed (for a particular mouthpiece) and the embouchure should not move off of it.......ever.
..............Paul Aviles
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
The Clarinet Pages
|
 |
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
