 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: mmatisoff
Date: 2016-04-19 23:01
Hello,
When I picked up my Leblanc Opus from the repair shop a month back, it still hadn't been fixed completely. They had to make additional adjustments, which they did while I waited. For the most part, it played and sounded much better. Yet, it still wasn't playing 100%. When I try playing F, F#, G, and G# in the second register, it takes a lot of air flow to play the notes (if they come out at all). I don't have any problems on the other notes. I can even reach high A with no problems.
How can I tell if I'm the problem is with me or the clarinet? Before I ship it off to a new shop, I want to make sure that I'm not the problem.
I've had problems with my current shop in the past. They never quite get it right the first time. They usually fix the problems the 2nd or 3rd time around.
Tx
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Author: Caroline Smale
Date: 2016-04-19 23:18
Get another competent clarinetist to play it.
If it works fine for him it's you
otherwise it's the instrument
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2016-04-20 00:53
If you have to get them to attempt to fix the problems they make the 2nd, 3rd, 4th or 5th tine around, then it's about time you found a competent repairer as it sounds like they haven't got a clue what they're doing. It's a Leblanc Opus, so it should play very easily with no effort.
You can do a suction or pressure test to see if the joints are airtight. Lick your fingertips so they seal the toneholes and seal off the tenon with a finger or the palm of your free hand.
Then suck the air out of the joint and see how long it can hold a vacuum for. If it holds for well over ten seconds, then it's sealing well. If it barely holds a vacuum or will hold a vacuum for less than two seconds, then it's leaking. If you can remove your finger that's sealing the tenon after several seconds and you still get a nice clean 'pop' (like uncorking a bottle of wine), then that's a good seal. If you can remove your finger with no resistance and there's no 'pop' then it's leaking.
Similarly, do a pressure test by blowing air into the joint or by pushing air from your mouth into the joint to pressurise it. If you can get the pressure held in the joint and it hisses when you open a tonehole, then you've got a good seal. On the lower joint you may find either the F#/C# or Ab/Eb pads will open and air will hiss out from them. If it takes a lot of pressure to do this, then you have a good seal. If you can hear hissing and can't see any pads lifting (a mirror helps here), then you have a leak.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2016-04-20 00:53
One point of disparity between players (you and your tech) could be "ring height." This can be exacerbated by harder materials used for pads (leather, synthetic, cork.....in that order). So you may just need to make a ring or two higher or lower.
...............Paul Aviles
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Author: Steven Ocone
Date: 2016-04-20 01:26
When I have a customer that says I don't know if it is me or the clarinet, it is almost always the clarinet.
Check the ring heights, including the thumb. They should be just a little higher than the finger hole, depending on the pad and the clarinet model. I only mention this because it is sometimes neglected by some in my trade.
Steve Ocone
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2016-04-20 01:33
Ring height and poor ring height at that (either too high or too low) is down to the repairer who replaced the ring key vent pad. Then ideally they have to sit even with their tops parallel to the tops of the chimneys whatever height they are.
There is an optimum setting for ring heights which is around 0.5mm above the chimneys as a starting point to suit any player, but they can be lowered or raised to custom fit/accommodate the size, shape and length of the player's hands and fingers as well as the density of the type of pads used.
I've worked on a Leblanc Opus where they've had to file out the inside front sides of the RH chimneys at the factory so they don't catch on the chimneys - they were left razor sharp and filed through the plating instead of having been fitted properly before plating.
Leblanc fitted readily finished (that's already plated, padded and corked) keys to their clarinets from the '90s (or maybe earlier) with the joints and keys only meeting up at the finishing stage of production instead of the keywork all being made and mounted specific to each individual instrument at a much earlier stage of production as they once did.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2016-04-20 01:57
Are the equivalent low-register notes OK (Bb-B-C-C#)?
One possibility (at least for F and F#) is that the bridge key is out of adjustment. However, that would affect lower notes. Rotate the joints so that the bridge key is completely disengaged. How does it play then?
The wood between the Bb/F finger hole and the pad just above is the thinnest on the clarinet. Have that checked to make sure there's no crack.
As Norman says, have someone else play your clarinet, or you play another.
It's almost certainly a hardware problem. I agree that you should take the instrument to another repair shop, hopefully a better one.
Ken Shaw
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2016-04-20 06:56
Watch it not be the ring heights........but I HAVE to disagree with the "ideal" ring height theory. That's how we get situations like the above example (but it may not be that in this case).
I have big, fat fingers so I fall in the ideal category, but I had a student (a really wonderful student) with very thin fingers. What happens with that (or playing more at the very tips of the fingers, or both) is that the rings will ride "UP" the finger. So you have to adjust them "HIGH" as you look at them closing their respective pads to compensate for this. If you set the ideal for "spindly fingers," you are doing a disservice for your client.
..............Paul Aviles
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2016-04-21 01:34
As I said:
"There is an optimum setting for ring heights which is around 0.5mm above the chimneys as a starting point to suit any player, but they can be lowered or raised to custom fit/accommodate the size, shape and length of the player's hands and fingers as well as the density of the type of pads used."
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2016-04-21 16:56
Sorry Chris.
I missed all of that. I am quite sleep deprived lately.
...............Paul Aviles
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2016-04-23 16:54
I've always lived by my belief that one should never leave the repair shop until completly satisfied with the work. That's a reason I've never recommended sending a clarinet out if you have any choice. Every tech and every player has their own preference for feel for spring tension and ring hight. And then there's alway the human factor of something slightly not being perfect. Try before you leave the shop, you're paying of perfection not for it just being OK.
ESP eddiesclarinet.com
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2016-04-23 18:04
Not knowing where you live, what I'm going to say may come off sounding unrealistic.
I agree completely with Ed about avoiding distance repairs. I am fortunate (as is Ed) to live in an area that is fairly rich with competent repair techs. I take my instruments to Mike Hammer, whose work I've learned to trust and value, but there are at least 3 or 4 other very good techs in the area - more if I include the entire D.C. to New York City corridor.
There are good techs, I would think, in every major city in the U.S., certainly in any area with an orchestra or venues where free-lance musicians perform (I'm assuming you live in the States - your IP address is apparently in Indiana, but it may be a VPN proxy address). If I lived in another part of the country and didn't have the easy access to repair people I do have, I would find the most highly recommended tech in the nearest sizeable city, make an appointment with him or her, and invest a day in traveling to the shop. Unless you live in real isolation several hours' drive from anywhere, this should be do-able. If the city has an orchestra you can contact the players in the orchestra for recommendations.
It isn't as convenient as taking the instrument to the nearest music store - often one that caters to school programs - and leaving it with whoever services the student rental inventory. If you've tried a local music store repair shop and weren't satisfied with the work, going back to the same place on later occasions expecting better work may not be reasonable.
I would take the clarinet back to the tech that did the work, explain what you aren't happy with, and let him try to solve the problem. If he can't (or even if he can, since you haven't been happy with him in the past), I would find another shop, but I would make every effort to find one with a good reputation I could travel to and have the work done while I waited. I would avoid shipping it off to someone, no matter how highly reputed, if at all possible.
Karl
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2016-04-23 19:04
The "tech in your neighborhood" can be tricky. As a past resident of Atlanta (last I checked, it is a major US city), I can safely say there are NO good repair people in the city of Atlanta. So great repair people are harder to find outside of New York, D.C., and Chicago. I've been to fantastic repair people in Louisville, KY and Nashville TN, but the pickins' are slim throughout the US.
With that though, I would NOT go back to a rotten tech. He's just going to assess things through same prism that got you the first unsuccessful repair job. See if you can contact orchestral players in your area and find out who they go to for regular repair or emergency fixes that they cannot handle themselves.
...................Paul Aviles
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2016-04-23 20:24
Paul Aviles wrote:
> The "tech in your neighborhood" can be tricky. As a past
> resident of Atlanta (last I checked, it is a major US city), I
> can safely say there are NO good repair people in the city of
> Atlanta.
That's surprising. So who do the guys in the Atlanta Symphony go to?
KArl
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