 The Clarinet BBoard
|
Author: MarlboroughMan
Date: 2016-04-15 18:28
Like many of us, I have more mouthpieces stashed in my studio than I care to count (drawers full of them). But the other day, it dawned on me to count only the number of mouthpieces I've used for paying gigs. I was very surprised to find that, of all the gigs I've played over the last two decades, I've used a grand total of eight mouthpieces. Coincidentally, that's also the number of clarinets I've used on gigs.
It's an interesting thing to look at, because it narrow down what you REALLY think of your equipment. When your job is on the line, what do you actually play?
Here are my "Elite 8":
Charles Bay c. 1989
Pomarico Crystal c. 1998
James Pyne c. 1997
Zinner Pieterson Model c. 1988
Zinner Pieterson Model c. 1988
Selmer Benny Goodman Model c. 1950s/60s
Brilhart Ebolin c.1938
Brilhart Ebolin c.1938
I used these on 2 Buffet R13s, 2 Fritz Wurlitzer R-Bs, 3 Selmer CTs, and one Vito V40.
For the other people who have played paying gigs--how many mouthpieces have you actually used over the years for those gigs? I'd be interested to learn if others have had the same experience.
It really makes me question whether I need to buy any more mouthpieces...
Eric
******************************
The Jazz Clarinet
http://thejazzclarinet.blogspot.com/
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: seabreeze
Date: 2016-04-15 19:49
Well, same here. Out of a mouthpiece collection that fits into several shoe boxes, I really use or have used only a few (7) on gigs (not necessarily in order of preference):
Clark Fobes San Francisco CF
Vandoren 3UD
Behn Epic
Vandoren M13
Reserve X0
Kuckmeier B2 Play Easy (seldom)
Mitchell Lurie M3 (for many decades, way way back when dinosaurs roamed the earth)
Except for the Lurie, the only other "vintage" one is the 3UD. None of the older and hallowed ones tucked away in the boxes play nearly as well as the ones in this list. The others have all been acquired in the last 5 years. All these have facings (original or redone) in the 0.96 to 102 mm tip range, Everthing else is experimentation, false leads, wild hopes, and "continuing education." What's in the list is what works for me. Actually, except for the very covered sound and extra resistance of the Kuckmeier, the others, despite some differences in timbre, all play somewhat similar for me (easy to blow, easy to voice, quick articulation, nice tuning, not too hard to find reeds for, good projection, blend well).
As for the endless argument about whether mass produced peices or custom made is better, the truth (for me at least) is that either can be very good or not so good. There are great Vandoren and Reserve pieces and some that don't play well for me at all. Same for the custom makers. Some of their models work for me, many do not. My favorites are my favorites, whether mass produced or custom made.
Post Edited (2016-05-27 22:15)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: KenJarczyk
Date: 2016-04-15 19:59
I am happy to say that so far, gigging from a very young age to today - spanning over 50 years, that although I have play-tested hundreds and purchased some, I have NEVER performed with a Vandoren mouthpiece of any kind or type, ever!
Ken Jarczyk
Woodwinds Specialist
Eb, C, Bb, A & Bass Clarinets
Soprano, Alto, Tenor & Baritone Saxophones
Flute, Alto Flute, Piccolo
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: ClarinettyBetty
Date: 2016-04-15 23:08
I play a Gigliotti P34 on Bb and A, previously an M13 lyre.
Eb clarinet is a 5RV.
I have all of my mouthpieces worked on to suit my own preference, though, so those specs are now "for what it's worth."
-----------------------
Eb: 1972 Buffet BC20
Bb: Selmer Paris Presence
A: Selmer Paris Presence
Bass: 1977 LeBlanc
https://gentrywoodwinds.com
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: clarnibass
Date: 2016-04-15 23:39
From about 12 years ago when I got my current main clarinet and mouthpiece... one Bb clarinet and one Bb mouthpiece... with the rare exception of another Bb clarinet and mouthpiece in the few times I had to play two clarinets at the same time. Also one bass clarinet and mouthpiece. I don't remember exactly before that but I used a few other clarinets and mouthpieces. I've tried hundreds of clarinets and mouthpiece since.
Got rid of most of my mouthpieces... hope to eventually get rid of all of them except a couple of backups.
Maybe for a teacher it's good have some mouthpieces students can try.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2016-04-16 06:22
I'm serially monogamous, but that only lasts a year at most so over 40 years, that would be......... a lot of mouthpieces.
Hey Eric, I'm curious, is the Pieterson a German mouthpiece? If so what are the dimensions (opening, lay length)?
..............Paul Aviles
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: WhitePlainsDave
Date: 2016-04-16 16:17
Ken:
I totally respect the fact that you haven't played Vandoren.
I'm not going to even take that as necessarily your complete thumbs down for their wares.
I too have tried many makes and models of mouthpieces from all time periods, vendors, and places, purchased only a tiny subset of those, and landed with Vandoren simply because the mouthpieces are excellent, if not the finest Behn/Fobes has ever produced, reasonably priced, and for me, perhaps most importantly, pretty readily replaceable [without breaking the bank.]
Sure, no two mouthpieces are identical...and it's not like I'm prone to breaking them...but for me, I like the fact that I have a new one/backup in my gig bag, in addition to the working one in my case, and yet another at home. I guess peace of mind has a price too.
Morales takes it a step further, making his backup mouthpiece his favorite.
https://youtu.be/Pq9nuIZo_wE?t=1m40s
I think I get where he is going with this logic even if he doesn't expressly say it:
'The emotional trauma of accidentally breaking your every day excellent mouthpiece is offset by the fact that your backup is better.'
Those who would disagree and say, "spend your money on 'the' best mouthpiece for you and play it" certainly have a valid argument.
I played 2 mouthpieces for moola, but my living comes from technology positions.
Post Edited (2016-04-17 02:25)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: MarlboroughMan
Date: 2016-04-16 16:40
Hey Paul--
Yeah, the Pieterson is a German mouthpiece. I was told it was based off of a Fritz Wurlitzer design, but more of a Zinner interpretation of that design. I've never measured the tip and lay, but will say they're "pretty close" and "pretty long"--ha!
I'm notoriously lax about actually measuring my stuff. I never knew the measurements on my Brilharts until a friend checked one of mine when we were hanging out...turns out it's somewhere between 130-140...I promptly forgot which...I had no idea I was playing a mouthpiece that open after going from a 104 Benny Goodman model! Athough it's probably a good idea to know these things, I try not to get number crazy. One less level of mania to deal with.
Eric
******************************
The Jazz Clarinet
http://thejazzclarinet.blogspot.com/
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: TomS
Date: 2016-04-16 16:54
I don't qualify with the same talent, training and experience as most that have posted, and most of my regular professional playing ended about 15 years ago, but just for the record:
Hite (original, hand faced/finished by David Hite)
Morgan RM110 (early production)
Charles Bay H1
Vandoren M13, M30-lyre and 5RV-lyre (depends on venue and mood)
I have a shoebox full of MPs ... but would have a footlocker full if not reset my playing twice and sold/gave away everything ... I've played many others mentioned ... but only for a few days or weeks at a time. The Vandorens have an advantage in my area, in that the local stores stock quite a few, and I can go through many for one selection ...
Tom
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: bassclarinet101 ★2017
Date: 2016-04-16 18:30
I am definitely not a professional in the play in an orchestra sense, but while I've owned MANY mouthpieces (maybe somewhere between 30-40?), I only really used three for various situations on soprano clarinet, and three on bass clarinet.
For jazz, in the past I used a Rick Sayre or a Gregory Smith 1+.
For subbing in orchestras or for community playing I used a Walter Grabner CXZ_Chicago.
For bass clarinet I've used two different Walter Grabner Personal Series, and one Lawrie Bloom mouthpiece. I also have a Virtuoso, but I haven't had any occasion of bombastic band music to use it since the purchase.
-Daniel
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: KenJarczyk
Date: 2016-04-16 19:55
I had an great teacher early, who took me to see the mouthpiece craftsman Frank Wells in Chicago. He made me 2 mouthpieces that lasted me through the end of High School, through College, and into professional life. I finally wore them out, I guess, but discovered Gregory Smith mouthpieces, and one of his hand-made K series made for a perfect replacement for the Wells.
Now - by this time in life, no one can every argue with me about how wonderful mass-produced mouthpieces can be -- they just are not - period. A craftsman made mouthpiece will make any mass produced piece prove to be a compromise at best. I've always been curious, and test a lot of mouthpieces, but sorry, a great Vandoren, Rico, etc. mouthpiece does not exist.
After many years on the Smith, I kind-of wore it out, migrating to Grabner and Fobes mouthpieces. The Fobes CF+ was wonderful, but I personally found the CWF to be more wonderful! Grabner's K14 is perfect for any Jazz, Klezmer, etc. gig.
When I knew I was going to test Eb clarinets for purchase, I ordered the Clark Fobes Eb mouthpiece first! Same for Bass - I got his "personal facing" Bass piece, and then went hunting for a horn.
There's clarinet mouthpiece history. Go for quality - you will get your money's worth.
Ken Jarczyk
Woodwinds Specialist
Eb, C, Bb, A & Bass Clarinets
Soprano, Alto, Tenor & Baritone Saxophones
Flute, Alto Flute, Piccolo
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: MarlboroughMan
Date: 2016-04-16 22:31
Though it's probably useless to reiterate or clarify on this BBoard, my question wasn't "what's your set-up" or "what do you think of Vandoren mouthpieces."
My question was "How many TOTAL mouthpieces have you used on PAYING GIGS throughout the ENTIRETY of your career."
My answer: eight.
I'm curious to know whether others have such a comparatively low number, when looking at the volume of mps most of us collect.
Eric
******************************
The Jazz Clarinet
http://thejazzclarinet.blogspot.com/
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: brycon
Date: 2016-04-16 22:40
Only 2 for me: a Johnston J model and a Chicago Kaspar. My Johnston is more flexible, however, so that's what a mainly play.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: seabreeze
Date: 2016-04-16 23:05
Thanks for clarifying. I confess that for decades beginning around 1964, I played everything on a Mitchell Lurie M3. Can't understand why looking back, but I did. So that makes a grand total of 7 for me, after trying certianly more than 100 different mouthpieces. (I've gone back and added the Lurie to my list).
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: KenJarczyk
Date: 2016-04-16 23:37
6 on Bb (as explained above, one only need count, those were my gigging mouthpieces. You needn't get snotty. I played paying gigs through that time, and the story explains it! Okay, Eric? Didn't mean to scare anyone with a complete answer.)
1 on A
1 on Eb
1 on Bass
1 on C
Saxophones?
Soprano 2 (but one for the last 15 years)
Alto 4 (but one for the last 20 years)
Tenor 35? (But one for the last 15 years)
Bari 2 (but one for the last 40 years!)
There.
Ken Jarczyk
Woodwinds Specialist
Eb, C, Bb, A & Bass Clarinets
Soprano, Alto, Tenor & Baritone Saxophones
Flute, Alto Flute, Piccolo
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: MarlboroughMan
Date: 2016-04-17 00:03
Thanks man. That was a lot less vague (your post above was not at all clear as to how many of those were used for paying gigs, vs. which ones might have only been used while studying, etc). I don't mind the added stories...just was a little bit more interested in my original question.
Eric
******************************
The Jazz Clarinet
http://thejazzclarinet.blogspot.com/
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: KenJarczyk
Date: 2016-04-17 00:23
My first paying gig was an ethnic klezmer ditty when I was 6.
Thanks.
Ken Jarczyk
Woodwinds Specialist
Eb, C, Bb, A & Bass Clarinets
Soprano, Alto, Tenor & Baritone Saxophones
Flute, Alto Flute, Piccolo
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: KenJarczyk
Date: 2016-04-17 00:51
Yeah, you're right. That makes 8 on Bb. The Geo. M. Bundy makes it 7! Then the stock (then Chedeville Buffet) on the '69 R13 makes it 8! I stand corrected!
Ken Jarczyk
Woodwinds Specialist
Eb, C, Bb, A & Bass Clarinets
Soprano, Alto, Tenor & Baritone Saxophones
Flute, Alto Flute, Piccolo
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: MarlboroughMan
Date: 2016-04-17 01:01
Haha...that's awesome. I'll tell you what...my story isn't as impressive as you gigging on a Bundy, but I did play a whole mess of bass clarinet gigs on a stock Buffet mouthpiece--one of those plastic 'placeholder' ones. Best bass clarinet mouthpiece I own...though that didn't stop me from buying a whole bunch of other useless ones to throw into my closet!
Eric
******************************
The Jazz Clarinet
http://thejazzclarinet.blogspot.com/
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Liquorice
Date: 2016-04-17 01:09
"lol...yeah,
Thanks man.
Cool man!
Haha...that's awesome."
Eric????
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: MarlboroughMan
Date: 2016-04-17 01:23
Don't worry man, nobody hacked my account.
I sometimes write the way I talk. Depends on the situation. I'm a native New Yorker who plays most of his gigs in bars and nightclubs. There's a lot of "cool man...that's awesome" in my general discourse--by nature, inclination, and even cultural necessity. Other times, when I'm publishing a scholarly article or having a conversation that calls for a particular type of clarity, I'll adopt a more academic tone.
Eric
******************************
The Jazz Clarinet
http://thejazzclarinet.blogspot.com/
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2016-04-17 01:55
Let's see:
In the 1950s my teacher got me a Stowell Wells Schneider B2; in the 60s it was a Selmer HS**, the next 30 years a Portnoy BP02 (loved that MP), then a B45 with a small chip in the tip that I got on a junk clarinet, and finally a Borbeck 16.
I still carry the B45 and a Rico Reserve X10 in my case as a backup. So, I guess 5 MPs all of which I still own. Whether it was a wind ensemble, orchestra, pit gig, jazz job, etc. I always used the same setup.
HRL
PS Legere' reeds play very well on all these MPs.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: MartyMagnini
Date: 2016-04-18 20:48
Let's see - for money I've played 6.
(chronologically):
Hand made Borbeck (before they were mass produced)
O'Brien crystal (for jazz)
Hawkins "R" model - very early one - I met Richard when he was going to Michigan, before he was very well known).
Backun Orchestra + (still my "go to" piece)
Pete Fountain (on my Pete Fountain clarinet, set up and gold plated by Morrie Backun - wonderful for jazz).
Just had my first paid gig this past Saturday on a EMS JP7. Very nice, easy blowing piece. I also like their MCK1, but like the JP7 a bit better.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: bassclarinet101 ★2017
Date: 2016-04-18 20:56
For paying gigs, my answer remains the same as above, though I may have a paying band gig utilizing the Virtuoso coming up.
-Daniel
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2016-04-18 22:09
Marty,
Are you sure that Borbeck MPs are now mass produced?
I just got another Borbeck 16 a few months ago and had a nice chat with Bob when placing the order. He said he could have it done in a couple of days (which he did do).
Also, another BB friend ordered another MP from Bob recently and told me he enjoyed the phone chat as well.
HRL
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: GBK
Date: 2016-04-18 22:35
Borbeck custom mouthpieces are still made one-at-a-time by Bob himself, using Zinner blanks. The only way to get one is to contact him directly. He has no website.
I've talked to him numerous times and he's made me three new ones to my specific preferences. Each played better than the original one he made for me in the early 1970's.
He is a true craftsman, and having studied with Kaspar he certainly knows the ins and outs (pun intended) of mouthpiece making.
He no longer makes his mouthpieces for any of the major woodwind suppliers. Any that you still may find are very old stock, with far less finishing work.
He's one of the oldest living clarinet mouthpieces makers, and certainly an important figure in clarinet mouthpiece history.
...GBK
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: MartyMagnini
Date: 2016-04-19 02:08
I was under the impression that you could buy a Borbeck from one of several music retailers - at least a while ago - of course I may be mistaken. I got my original Borbeck in 1973 - he sent quite a few trial mouthpieces to members of the Chicago Symphony, including my teacher, Walter Wollwage. He gave me 3-4 to try, and I found one that I really loved. Played it for years and years. Might still be playing it if it hadn't fallen off a piano and shattered (about a week before a recital).
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: JamesOrlandoGarcia
Date: 2016-04-20 00:37
Just filed my tax returns so I just got done reviewing all my gig activity. I've used the same mouthpiece for the last ten years except for the one time I used something else and I sounded like crap on it.
This post is a little shady and I love it. It's a coy way to filter out the input of those community band alto clarinet players and those who perform exclusively in their bedrooms with smart music. :P
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2016-04-20 02:13
James,
There is a line in Gypsy where one of the "girls" says "so what's the matter with stripping.." We'd break up in the pit every time she said it.
So, "what's the matter with community band alto clarinet players (I actually know two*) or people that perform exclusively in their bedrooms with smart music?" Too funny.
HRL
* both are really weak players
Post Edited (2016-04-20 23:28)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: JamesOrlandoGarcia
Date: 2016-04-20 23:06
@Hank That's fantastic! haha!!!
@Marty The mouthpiece I use is one of the standard offerings from Vandoren.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
The Clarinet Pages
|
 |
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
