 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: WhitePlainsDave
Date: 2016-04-10 00:16
Does Legere control reed strength with cut, materials, both, or something else?
My guess would be materials (at least, if not also cut.)
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2016-04-10 01:55
Wow, that's a really good question.
I am pretty sure that they cannot shape the material post production in the traditional sense of "cut," but the dimensions of the vamp, size of the heart and shape of the heart are different from one named series to another.
The Signature material is more transparent and seems to achieve a bit more overtones (more snap or crispness to how the material bends?).
So shape and material are on the table. I just think that all has to be determined before they fashion the reed itself.
This would be a great time for Guy Legere to chime in.
..............Paul Aviles
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Author: donald
Date: 2016-04-10 03:15
When Legere launched his reeds at Clarinetfest in 1998 (Columbus OH) he stated that the profiles were the same and that the variation in strength came from the material not the profile... at least that's how I recall it.
Many times over the years I've also heard "those in the know" state that commercial reeds are all made to the same profile, then sorted into hardness based on the strength of the cane- so that for any given reed model the difference in strength is dictated by the material, not the cut, but I've never bothered to buy boxes of different strengths and then measure them to make a statistical comparison.
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2016-04-10 04:32
Interesting question....
So it could be that each cut is slightly different (would be easy for someone with some measuring devices to measure), or it could be that the molds are all the same, and the density of the material is varied and then the correct "density" is poured into the mold and cooled....or the cut is the same, just cut from different density sheets of the plastic?
Wow! I'd love to see a marketing video of "how it's made" for legere reeds! Like the videos I've seen of buffet clarinets, the leblanc bliss one on "how it's made", or backuns!!!
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2016-04-10 07:05
At least when I was coming up, on brown box Ricos and purple box Vandorens, there was a significant difference in thickness between soft and hard reeds. #1 or 1-1/2 reeds were nearly transparent at the tip and had much less spine down the middle. #5 were nearly opaque at the tip and much higher down the spine.
Ken Shaw
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Author: WhitePlainsDave
Date: 2016-04-15 17:51
So..with continued curiosity I searched Legere's website and found on it where they publish the US Patent numbers under which their product is protected.
http://legere.com/our-patents
A little reading of the more recent of the two http://www.google.com/patents/US7902443
suggests that "the proof's in the pudding," or to put it clearer terms, adjustment to the material used to create a reed is what controls Legere synthetic reed strength.
Post Edited (2016-04-16 16:18)
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Author: TomS
Date: 2016-04-17 19:08
Yes, the material hardness is determined by the chemistry. I suspect that batches of the raw material is tested for consistency before it is machined into the finished product. I have noticed that the machining marks on the Legere reeds have changed from time to time ... all now have the characteristic herringbone pattern, but some have this more pronounced and, especially the flat side of the reed, appear quite roughly textured.
Cane reeds are primarily sorted for strength ... however, if the average density of the cane drifts, adjustments are made in the way they are cut. If you had a slow growing season and the cane, as an average, was very hard, most of your available cane would tend toward higher strength ratings. Pretty soon, you could only supply #4 and #5. So, the cutting machines are adjusted to cut the reeds differently (usually thinner) so that you can supply the entire range of reed strength ratings. The opposite is true if the cane is abnormally soft. I think I am correct on this? Feedback please.
Tom
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Author: D Dow
Date: 2016-04-17 20:38
I would say yes to all the questions above....remember we are dealing with a polymer material as any synthetic product. I would add Legere reeds in the last five years have improved dramatically. Legere reeds are fantastic and allow a player to practice and perform at the very highest level. So it can be for many a life saver giving changes in climate and atmospheric problems....
David Dow
Post Edited (2016-04-17 20:39)
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Author: WhitePlainsDave
Date: 2016-04-17 22:29
Tom..what your're saying sounds good in theory, and perhaps holds true for at least some, if not all cane reed producers.
My strong understanding though, at least for Vandoren, was that the model of reed for a particular woodwind is cut with specific dimensions
http://dansr.com/files/V21_Specifications_new.pdf
puff tested for resistance, and sorted into its categories of strength based upon strength variability that mother nature inherently put into the tested piece of cane that formed the reed being examined for strength.
I certainly "hear you," on seasonal variations. Maybe that results in Vandoren recalibrating what it takes for a reed to be any particular strength for any batch they are processing, and their puff-test-for-strength machines.
I too I'm fine to hear otherwise. Vandoren reports ability to cut reeds within the tolerances of a human hair's thickness--which a little side research shows me to be between .08mm and .1mm of thickness--so maybe they can (and do) make 1/100ths+ of a mm (i.e. 0.01mm+) adjustments.
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Author: kdk
Date: 2016-04-18 02:07
TomS wrote:
> Cane reeds are primarily sorted for strength ... however, if
> the average density of the cane drifts, adjustments are made in
> the way they are cut. If you had a slow growing season and the
> cane, as an average, was very hard, most of your available
> cane would tend toward higher strength ratings. Pretty soon,
> you could only supply #4 and #5. So, the cutting machines are
> adjusted to cut the reeds differently (usually thinner) so that
> you can supply the entire range of reed strength ratings. The
> opposite is true if the cane is abnormally soft. I think I am
> correct on this? Feedback please.
>
I have no idea if this is correct or not. but I'd be interested to know the source of the information.
Karl
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Author: TomS
Date: 2016-04-18 16:04
I got my information, about cane reeds, from Vandoren, either in an article, or old sales brochure. They actually play test sample lots and see if they are drifting (I assume before they are graded) in one direction or the other and adjustments are made to the cutting specifications, if needed. Apparently this is a better test than machine grading, at least in the past.
This is OLD information ... they may have a different approach now ... but seems plausible. Cane density has to drift from year to year? Maybe not so much with scientific farming methods?
And I think Legere has stated that their strength is determined by the materiel stiffness, for a given model of reed.
Hope I haven't launched some total BS ...
Tom
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