 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: hunterirwin
Date: 2016-04-05 09:11
Hello,
I'm a senior in high school, and I play clarinet and bass clarinet in the wind symphony. I am in the market for a new professional model Bb clarinet, mouthpiece, ligature, and barrel, because I plan to major in clarinet performance in college. I have a whole plethora of mouthpieces and ligatures. I own a Vandoren 5RV-Lyre, B45, B44, M30 (I think), and I actually play on a Selmer C85-120. As for ligatures I use a Rovner Dark, and have a Bonade inverted, and Luyben. With bass I play on a Selmer C* and Bonade inverted. The reeds I'm using for Bb are D'Addario Reserve Classic 3.5s, but I usually switch between them and different styles of Vandoren's. And for bass I use Vandoren V-12 2.5s (because I can't breathe at all!). I play on a Yamaha YCL-34 that's about 20 years old (so it's a little past due!). I got it for Christmas in 6th grade. I also own a Yamaha YCL-221 II bass clarinet that I got my freshman year. Both of them have served me well, getting me to all-state four years in a row, and district band five years in a row. I've been looking into the Buffet R-13 Prestige, Vintage, Festival, Divine (if it is worth it?), and of course the original R-13 with silver-plated keys. As for barrels, I've seen a lot of options. I don't know whether wood or a synthetic material is better. For example, I've seen Muncy barrels in both wood and synthetic, and I've also seen Backun and Fobes too. What is the difference between the Diamond model and the regular model? And when compared to the Scott barrel, how are the the same and different? One teacher recommended that I use a "reverse taper". I don't plan to upgrade all of my supplies at once, but if I can, I'd like to get my barrel first (if you recommend the synthetic ones since they are cheaper), then a new clarinet, and finally a new mouthpiece and ligature. I also really want to invest in one of Muncy's or Lomax's fancy humidified reed cases (if it fits Eb, Bb, and Bass reeds because I play all three on a regular basis)! Thank you in advance. I appreciate it!
Thanks,
Hunter Irwin
hunter.irwin@outlook.com
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Author: nellsonic
Date: 2016-04-05 10:09
Lot's here to unpack! Do you know where you will be going to school? Your future clarinet teacher is really the one you should consult with on these issues. It would be a shame to get a bunch of new equipment to replace what got you successfully through the audition, only to find that your new teacher no longer likes your sound and wants you change again.
Also, this person may already have certain products in mind for you.
Anders
Post Edited (2016-04-05 10:59)
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2016-04-05 15:02
Changing more than one thing at a time is not only un-scientific, it will give you one big headache.
So, you go into looking for a new clarinet with a mouthpiece you KNOW and trust. And you use a reed that you KNOW and trust. Then you play a few minutes on YOUR complete set up before you even pick up the new horn (so you feel and hear exactly where YOU are at in that space at that time). Then you try the new horn.
You pretty much do the same thing for the other bits (but you have to be comfortable and familiar with the parts you are NOT changing).
Anything else will only cause confusion and heartache............trust me on this one.
.................Paul Aviles
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2016-04-05 15:06
Hunter,
As a senior, you have done very well with the YCL-34 and the YCL221 II (and you have a very nice selection of MP and ligatures). These are really nice instruments that can serve as your backups in the coming years.
While I currently play Selmer and Yamaha saxes and clarinets, I have owned some really nice Buffet and Leblanc equipment in the past. The good stuff of each brand is light years above classic instruments. As an example, my Yamaha YTS 475, a mid-level model tenor blows the doors of my outstanding Selmer Mark VI; my Yamaha CS Custom plays rings around my Selmer 9*.
I echo the suggestion by Nellsonic of checking with your future teacher and seeing what is the preferred instrument. For whatever reasons, clarinet professors tend to have choices in mind and will likely be willing to share them with you. However, if you are undecided about where you will go to school, IMHO there is no rush to get new equipment prior to an audition.
I predict an enjoyable time ahead for you in selecting the the next "weapons in your arsenal."
HRL
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Author: kdk
Date: 2016-04-05 18:16
Hunter, your enthusiasm may be overwhelming your sense of perspective.
It sounds as though you're hoping to upgrade your equipment in preparation for auditions. Have you taken any auditions yet? When I was a senior in high school (in 1965), this is just about when I auditioned for college programs. But these days, on the evidence I've seen of my own students, it seems late to be only beginning the process of applying to college programs. So, if you haven't already started, you probably don't have time to make a careful, methodical selection of equipment and still get used to playing on it in time to apply and audition for a September 2016 placement.
If you already have been accepted somewhere and omitted it from your post, then ignore the preceding paragraph. I second the idea of contacting your clarinet professor to get his or her opinion about equipment. If you've already been accepted into a clarinet class, it was on the strength of your musical skill, and the person who auditioned you, probably the prof himself, took any equipment deficiencies into account, realizing that better equipment would only improve your playing. Don't hurry into any expensive changes on your own.
If you haven't already been accepted to a program for September, the clarinet professors who hear you audition are well aware of the limits of student-level equipment. They will be listening to your control, technique and sense of musical style.
I would seriously question your upgrade plan in any case. Barrels are not as expensive as clarinets, certainly, but they aren't cheap, and buying one when you plan to replace the entire instrument soon after makes little sense unless there's something really wrong with the barrel you're using and you need the change immediately. It doesn't sound like you have a particular reason to select a new mouthpiece or ligature other than just wanting something new. What you already have is very capable. I'd suggest not changing mouthpieces or ligatures unless you know why you're changing and what you want the new equipment to allow you to do that you can't do with anything in your current arsenal. As for the reed case, that's just an indulgence. You may enjoy having it, but it has nothing to do with your playing.
It sounds like what you're trying to do is find some ideal, "best" set of equipment by putting together other players' recommendations, recommendations that are all necessarily biased and personal. There isn't an ideal clarinet setup. There may be a setup that lets you play your best, but that needs to be found over time - years, not weeks or even months. The whole thing needs to act as a system, and each part needs to work well with the others. Moennig developed his reverse taper to compensate for specific idiosyncrasies of the Buffets he was setting up at the time. The same taper may or may not work well with specific clarinets of more recent design. Mouthpieces and ligatures all work together with the reeds you use on them and the plethora of choices available today is the direct response to the plethora of individual preferences of players. There isn't one that's perfect. But there are many, including the ones that you already own, that are good. Ligatures likewise primarily hold the reed to the mouthpiece. Beyond that ability, individual players' biases determine what they use, based on their perception of how the reed feels and the system sounds with one compared to another. "Your mileage may differ."
I would urge you, since you're already more than half-way through your senior year, to stick for a little longer with the horses that have gotten you through your previous races and wait until you get to the next level of instruction before you buy a whole new stable of creatures.
Karl
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Author: hunterirwin
Date: 2016-04-06 00:43
I will be attending Eastern New Mexico University in Portales, NM. I have already auditioned, gotten a scholarship, and am actually apart of their wind symphony right now. I've studied with them since I was a freshman, so I know all of them very well. My equipment is still in good working order, I just think I am ready for an upgrade to something better. My instruments (along with my musical skills, of course) have gotten me in to multiple all-state, all-district, honor bands, etc. events in the past (4-year all-stater! :D). I am currently in the process of setting up trials with Muncy Winds and (maybe) Midwest Musical Imports on all sorts of different equipment. I will also be attending ClarinetFest in August. There aren't a huge selection of good band/orchestra stores around where I live (Clovis, NM). Thank you all for your helpful input. I need all that I can get, because in the end, I want to make sure that I've made the right decisions. It means a lot to me.
Thanks,
Hunter Irwin
hunter.irwin@outlook.com
Post Edited (2016-04-06 00:45)
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Author: WhitePlainsDave
Date: 2016-04-06 01:35
Hunter, while I agree with all said so far in response to your inquiry, what hasn't been discussed--at least I didn't see it--is your budget.
Silly for anyone, especially your teacher--who you should definitely consult with--to make suggestions like a Tosca, when something less expensive may be all that is in reach for you financially. You mentioned some other high end Buffet's: all having the potential to be great clarinets--but are you equally aware of how their price fits into your financial needs for the next few years?
I admit to not knowing how much your scholarship covers your living expenses.
And then there's the possibility you'll need an "A" clarinet as well for orchestral work. I don't recalling seeing one in the list of your gear.
(Don't feel obliged to buy an instrument a teacher may try to sell you unless you would do so from an independent 3rd party under the same conditions.)
If you aren't familiar with how to buy an instrument (you might be, given your hardware inventory) bring along/consult people in the know.
I am not saying that you haven't put your time in behind the music stand--although its reasonable to assume you're paying just such dues given not simply your resume of gear, but achievements. But it's not gear that makes the player--as I suspect you know. It's boring repetitious work out of etude books, with vigilance to the metronome that best helps to develop young players.
Some of the finest clarinet players in the world, who'd be given instruments not only for free, but likely paid to say they play them, like Drucker, never even bothered to look beyond the R13 clarinet for most of his career. As I recall, he upgraded (at Francios Kloc's: Buffet's US Rep, suggestion) to a Prestige model when Buffet began using the higher end wood that use to be standard in R13s, in only Prestige model and higher instruments, given the shortage of quality billets.
Even then, he had the left pinky Ab/Eb lever removed! (Something you and I pay for.) My point: gear has its limits in improving play.
Final 2 cents: consider a career backup plan if you haven't, to make a living: e.g. music education, etc. Please understand this advice speaks nothing to your performance level, which I haven't seen, and so I'll presume is brilliant.
Even then, earning a living solely as a clarinetist, even as a performer of many woodwinds is difficult. I don't wish to discourage you, just put things in context for you: the non-music job market's full of Curtis and Julliard grads who had hard times making a living solely in performance. And some of its most (financially) successful at least had "backup plans." ![[wink]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smilie3.gif)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_Greenspan
I think though you should do what you love: but find a way to make a living around it.
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Author: kdk
Date: 2016-04-06 02:56
hunterirwin wrote:
> I will be attending Eastern New Mexico University in Portales,
> NM. I have already auditioned, gotten a scholarship, and am
> actually apart of their wind symphony right now. I've studied
> with them since I was a freshman, so I know all of them very
> well.
Some of the answers you got would have been different if you had said this in your first post. This is a much different situation than I understood it to be.
I'd still second Paul's (I think) advice not to go through every part of the clarinet at once. Since your goal is a general upgrade, I would look at clarinets first, before anything else. First of all, a barrel that's designed to work with the new instrument will come with it, so a new barrel may not be necessary. The mouthpiece purchase, it's true, is mostly independent of the instrument you choose, but there may be some interrelationship, so I would wait until you have settled on the central portion of the system, the clarinet itself. I would in your position definitely take your teacher's recommendations before others' and at your stage of experience as a player, I wouldn't want to see you make decisions completely on your own or by combining suggestions from players here that you don't know. If you've been studying with the university department members for the last 3-1/2 years, I suspect you've already gotten fairly clear recommendations.
Good luck with your program at Eastern New Mexico U. Just remember, you play the equipment. It doesn't play itself, no matter how good it is, and it doesn't make you play better because you have it. The best it can do is get out of your way and *allow* you to play your best.
Karl
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Author: hunterirwin
Date: 2016-04-06 17:37
I guess I should have mentioned that I'm planning to finance whatever clarinet I choose. My teacher did recommend that it would be smart to invest in an "A" clarinet, but ENMU doesn't have an orchestra program. Plus they have two that are available to students if need be. So I think that I can hold off on that for a while... However, I was going to get a new bass clarinet when I got to graduate school (but that's 4 years from now!). I've never really played any other brands than Yamaha or Buffet. My family and I go to Dallas on a regular basis for medical reasons, so I'm hoping to visit a decent music store where I can test some instruments. If you guys know of any places, please let me know. My teacher said that she would like to be with me when I did this, to make sure I'm getting the "right one". I can see how that would help.
Thanks,
Hunter Irwin
hunter.irwin@outlook.com
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Author: WhitePlainsDave
Date: 2016-04-06 18:01
"I just think I am ready for an upgrade to something better."
"I guess I should have mentioned that I'm planning to finance whatever clarinet I choose."
Hunter: Almost all of us have gear wish lists. Even those who can afford it, and/or as celebrity virtuosi are given equipment for free to try and hopefully use/endorse, often end up finding it no better than our current setups.
For this reason, and all the above, let me also throw in financial advise. Please strongly consider if another instrument acquisition is worth the cost of the debt. Or at least consider a Ridenour clarinet: not simply for the great value, but because they are often willing to extend 0% financing.
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Author: clarinetguy ★2017
Date: 2016-04-07 01:36
Hunter, I admire your enthusiasm. I'd also like to wish you the best of luck in college.
I'm not sure if Yamaha is still making the YCL 34, but it appears to be equivalent to the current YCL 400 or 450. They're nice intermediate clarinets, and as you've discovered, great instruments for high school students or serious amateurs.
It's an unfortunate fact that many high school seniors don't realize what they're getting themselves into when they decide to major in music. They love band and orchestra, but the college music experience is much more intense. In addition to lessons and ensembles, there are required courses in music theory, literature, sight singing, ear training, and piano or keyboards.
If you have good basic keyboard skills now, that's great, but if you don't, take some lessons before the fall. I'd also suggest learning some basic theory. Be prepared, and know what lies ahead!
If you were using a plastic Bundy or Vito, it would probably be wise to get something better before next fall. In your case, though, I would not suggest purchasing a new clarinet at this time. Your current one should be fine for your first semester. If you enjoy the music performance major experience, you can shop around for a better clarinet then.
Post Edited (2016-04-07 01:38)
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Author: Bob Bernardo
Date: 2016-04-07 09:53
At this stage hang on! Get into that music school first. I think all of us pros would want to hear you play, because the next 4 to 6 years of college your clarinet playing will go from a student to a pro. During these stages so much will change, reeds, mouthpieces, sound quality, everything. Sit back and enjoy the ride. Let your teacher help pick out that very special horn, mouthpiece, everything.
To be blunt, forgive me here, I haven't heard you play, however you may not be in the position to pick out a great clarinet. Buffet clarinets are like finding a great reed. Maybe 1 out of 15 to 20 will be that very special horn just for you. Here's the problem, you probably need that perfect mouthpiece and reed setup first, before you can find that great horn. I'm not saying that all of the other Buffets suck, I'm saying that it has to do with how you sound and your mouthpiece and reed setup.
So win some auditions, practice hard, have some fun, worry about everything else later. I can promise you that playing on a used 30 to 40 year old $300 Buffet R13 clarinet VS buying a Buffet Devine $9000 won't make a difference at the audition! As a student the sound differences between these horns may not even register.
Designer of - Vintage 1940 Cicero Mouthpieces and the La Vecchia mouthpieces
Yamaha Artist 2015
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Author: hunterirwin
Date: 2016-04-10 11:28
Sorry to keep this thread going, but I have a few questions on what I should I study up on before I get started in school this fall. Are there any books you guys would recommend that I buy? Any certain theory books that I should look into? I was looking into "Music Theory for Dummies," but figured there was something better. As for piano, I am taking a beginning course at my local community college through a dual credit program that my high school does. So I'm getting college credit for it too! Just let me know what you think. I am needing all the help I can get!!!
Thanks,
Hunter Irwin
hunter.irwin@outlook.com
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Author: WhitePlainsDave
Date: 2016-04-11 22:00
"What I should I study up on before I get started in school this fall."
...alternative or supplemental careers to performing and/or teaching music in case plans don't work out for you as well as you might have hoped...
Don't get me wrong Hunter. May you someday occupy the Los Angeles Philharmonic's Principal Clarinet Chair. Just recognize that even if you become a virtuosic player, such few and far between paid positions are hard to come by.
I don't say this cynically, just realistically. Is there anything other than music, say chemistry, that interests you, that might also be leveraged into an honest living and backup plan?
The happiest musicians, some might say, fall into two classes: those that made it, and those with a backup plan that continue pursuing it as a love/hobby. Some who actual make it get burnt out by the grueling schedules, teaching and performing/traveling just to make an acceptable, but by no means fabulous living.
Don't give up on your dreams--especially on my account. Rather, on my account, take my advise and give yourself career choices/options. I'm not saying that one can only be happy with a mansion and yacht. I am saying that one can be unhappy if they don't have the money to pay for their kids braces someday.
I realize this wasn't the question you really asked. Suggestions made here on boning up on music theory are both sound ones, and better in line with what you asked.
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