Woodwind.OrgThe Clarinet BBoardThe C4 standard

 
  BBoard Equipment Study Resources Music General    
 
 New Topic  |  Go to Top  |  Go to Topic  |  Search  |  Help/Rules  |  Smileys/Notes  |  Log In   Newer Topic  |  Older Topic 
 German Mouthpiece on Boehm Clarinet and Legere Reeds
Author: Paul Aviles 
Date:   2016-04-03 04:29

This combination works.


Firstly I owe an apology to earlier posters for whom I had nothing but skepticism. My first thought is that you are looking at an acoustical mismatch of equipment and are only asking for trouble. Well actually that is partly true, but what you have is a different set of compromises that can be overcome (not really any different than what we go through with Boehm mouthpieces on Boehm clarinets).

I also want to thank those folks that helped me along this path of discovery. Mostly I owe a debt of gratitude to Bas de Jong of Viotto mouthpieces for guiding my path of reed strength to use with the "standard German facing." I also must thank another poster, "Brietling 123456789" for asking a question about Viotto facings that led to my correspondence with Bas de Jong.

The key to getting a standard German mouthpiece to working is to use a very soft reed strength. The usually pairing of reed strength is 2 1/2. This is key to what the German approach and sound is all about. As Bas states, with this combination all one has to do is "blow." There is very little finagling at all with one's embouchure to achieve a really lovely classical sound on a clarinet.

The other key element to using the German mouthpiece is that you can get a wonderful sound using Legere German cut reeds. I have heretofore been very disappointed with Legere results on Boehm mouthpieces, but I think the key here is that one needs a very light approach to playing to get the best out of them. With the German mouthpiece approach this is just what you get.

So after living with various mouthpieces over the last five months I have gotten the best results with Wurlitzer M3+ facing mouthpieces and #3 Nick/Legere German cut reeds. I did need to bump up the strength with the Legeres to get the best results across the entire dynamic spectrum.

I am able to achieve a sound that is solid, and can carry through larger ensembles with this combination. I would say there are still better results with cane (Vandoren White Master 2 1/2) but the Legere offers far better consistency from playing session to playing session and a much more affordable option over time.


There are issues that need to be addressed with the Wurlitzer. For starters, the tenon is 1mm larger in diameter and 1mm longer than what we are used to. To get this to work I would imagine that a tech could reduce the last 1mm (length and diameter) to get this to work in a standard Boehm barrel. What I did was to ask Dr. Allan Segel to make a custom barrel to the larger deeper and wider dimensions.


Pitch is lower with the Wurlitzer so I would recommend using a barrel 2mm shorter than you would normally (if you use a 66mm, then a 64 should be a good starting point).


The other outstanding issue is the ligature. The diameter of the German mouthpiece body is smaller, and requires a specifically smaller ligature for this purpose. "Thomann" offers the Vandoren Optima in the German sized version as well as an odd little ligature by GF that has a screw/plate configuration that you can apply directly to the reed or flip to use in a similar fashion to the Silverstein. Or you can just tie on the reed with string as the old timers would do.


There are specific reasons why I think this whole idea is worth considering:

o Those with muscle dystonia in their lips
o Players who are getting older and cannot put as much effort as they used to
o Trying to sound more German (though only to a degree)




There certainly is a lot to say on the subject but I wanted to get the core of the idea out there.







.....................Paul Aviles



Post Edited (2016-04-03 05:05)

Reply To Message
 
 Re: German Mouthpiece on Boehm Clarinet and Legere Reeds
Author: seabreeze 
Date:   2016-04-03 08:27

Paul,

Are you playing the Wurlitzer M3+ mouthpiece on a Yamaha CSG Boehm clarinet or on some other Boehm? Have you tried it on more than one Boehm for comparison? If so, is there much difference in sound, tuning, and response?



Post Edited (2016-04-03 08:49)

Reply To Message
 
 Re: German Mouthpiece on Boehm Clarinet and Legere Reeds
Author: Paul Aviles 
Date:   2016-04-03 14:14

I have been playing on my CSGs but I did want a comparison to ensure that I was not suffering tunnel vision on the intonation front (if there may have been some freakish interaction with the odd dimension set up of Yamaha).

So I did a quick trial at a local store with an R13. I have a modified socket on a personally owned R13 66mm barrel (I did this about a year ago to "prep" for a trial of the Uebel Oehler_......another story). I was amazed by the really lovely centered sound and projection I got. Also as I had surmised, the pitch was low, not quite getting up to pitch against my Korg on its 66mm length. I assume that a 64 would have worked well. Perhaps even the available 63mm might be a safer choice.

My "final solution barrel" is a custom "fatboy" design by Allan Segal that is actually 4mm shorter than what I normally use on my Yamaha (I purposely avoid stating the length so as not to be confusing - the uninitiated to the CSG wouldn't "get it"). The top socket is 1mm or so deeper than normal and 1mm larger in diameter.


In the tropical weather we have in Florida right now, I am actually pulling out a bit, but I know that I will need the extra room to "push in" for colder climates.






................Paul Aviles



Reply To Message
 
 Re: German Mouthpiece on Boehm Clarinet and Legere Reeds
Author: Ed 
Date:   2016-04-03 16:10





Post Edited (2016-04-03 18:27)

Reply To Message
 
 Re: German Mouthpiece on Boehm Clarinet and Legere Reeds
Author: Paul Aviles 
Date:   2016-04-03 17:28

No.........White Masters on a German mouthpiece. The Vandoren White Master reed is cut and sized to work correctly with the German mouthpiece and facing configuration. As I have stated earlier the cut (length of vamp, amount of heart, width and length) is incorrect for the Boehm mouthpiece.





..............Paul Aviles



Reply To Message
 
 Re: German Mouthpiece on Boehm Clarinet and Legere Reeds
Author: Ed 
Date:   2016-04-03 17:40





Post Edited (2016-04-03 18:27)

Reply To Message
 
 Re: German Mouthpiece on Boehm Clarinet and Legere Reeds
Author: Paul Aviles 
Date:   2016-04-03 18:29

I stand by the statement .......... under normal (Boehm mouthpiece) circumstances.



I also think you know that those in the States who are using the White Masters are using them on standard Boehm mouthpieces. And that is a mismatch that cannot be overcome irrespective of the "respected players" who subject themselves to this mess.


I further want to add that this (I strongly believe) speaks more to cane reeds being incredibly flexible as to what conditions we subject them to. I would be interested to hear what results the "White Master" camp has with Nick/Legere reeds. I doubt they would be nearly as enthusiastic.





..................Paul Aviles



Post Edited (2016-04-03 18:32)

Reply To Message
 
 Re: German Mouthpiece on Boehm Clarinet and Legere Reeds
Author: Paul Aviles 
Date:   2016-04-03 21:14

Explanation:


Ed pointed to an apparent inconsistency in a previous statement of mine where I was quite critical of those who use Vandoren White Master reeds here in the States. Of course there are some fine players who do, and get away with their use in combination with what we consider a standard mouthpiece here. The problem is one of matching the length of the slope, how it slopes and the reeds vibration characteristics over its given vibrating length.


I am just trying to be as transparent about all of this as possible. This is an important topic.




...............Paul Aviles



Reply To Message
 
 Re: German Mouthpiece on Boehm Clarinet and Legere Reeds
Author: faltpihl 2017
Date:   2016-04-04 01:47

Have you tried the new legere European signature?

I was rather successful with it together with the viotto I use now.

Since the German cut will be phased out I don't wanna try it and like it too much at this point

Regards
Peter

Reply To Message
 
 Re: German Mouthpiece on Boehm Clarinet and Legere Reeds
Author: Paul Aviles 
Date:   2016-04-04 02:14

The Nick/Legere is what is used predominantly in Germany. There was some form of German cut "Signature" that was only available in S (soft), M (medium) and H (hard) which have already been discontinued.


I don't think I have much interest in the wider "European Cut." It would not fit as well on the Wurlitzer which features much thinner rails.









.............Paul Aviles



Reply To Message
 
 Re: German Mouthpiece on Boehm Clarinet and Legere Reeds
Author: Klose 2017
Date:   2016-04-04 04:27

Playnick is going to release their own synthetic reeds very soon. Also, in Austria, even a lot of beginners are now using synthetic reeds.

Lee

Paul Aviles wrote:

> The Nick/Legere is what is used predominantly in Germany.
> There was some form of German cut "Signature" that was only
> available in S (soft), M (medium) and H (hard) which have
> already been discontinued.
>
>
> I don't think I have much interest in the wider "European Cut."
> It would not fit as well on the Wurlitzer which features much
> thinner rails.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> .............Paul Aviles
>

Reply To Message
 
 Re: German Mouthpiece on Boehm Clarinet and Legere Reeds
Author: faltpihl 2017
Date:   2016-04-04 16:27

But my understanding was that the german cut and the old "signature" would be merged and replaced with the European signature.

Is it only the "german signature" which will be (or has been) discontinued recently?

In that case I'd get some german legeres to try as well :)

I found surprisingly that the European signature worked well on my viotto, although it looks a bit silly being so wide

Regards
Peter

Reply To Message
 
 Re: German Mouthpiece on Boehm Clarinet and Legere Reeds
Author: Klose 2017
Date:   2016-04-04 16:42

Hi Peter,

Actually according to Legere, the european signature is still a French cut but maybe it is a very universal model. "German signature" is something really confusing. Quite long time ago, Legere did sell German signature but it has been discontinued; not so long time ago, Playnick released the German signature which in fact is also a French cut. However now this so called "German" signature is also discontinued...

Regards,
Lee faltpihl wrote:

> But my understanding was that the german cut and the old
> "signature" would be merged and replaced with the European
> signature.
>
> Is it only the "german signature" which will be (or has been)
> discontinued recently?
>
> In that case I'd get some german legeres to try as well :)
>
> I found surprisingly that the European signature worked well on
> my viotto, although it looks a bit silly being so wide
>

Reply To Message
 Avail. Forums  |  Threaded View   Newer Topic  |  Older Topic 


 Avail. Forums  |  Need a Login? Register Here 
 User Login
 User Name:
 Password:
 Remember my login:
   
 Forgot Your Password?
Enter your email address or user name below and a new password will be sent to the email address associated with your profile.
Search Woodwind.Org

Sheet Music Plus Featured Sale

The Clarinet Pages
For Sale
Put your ads for items you'd like to sell here. Free! Please, no more than two at a time - ads removed after two weeks.

 
     Copyright © Woodwind.Org, Inc. All Rights Reserved    Privacy Policy    Contact charette@woodwind.org