 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: seabreeze
Date: 2016-03-24 07:00
Young French clarinetist Amaury Viduvier does the most rapid, even, distinct, controlled, tastefully musical, and amazing double tonguing I've ever heard on the Paganini 5 Caprice.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xHzA3ArHar0
Interesting to compare this with Alexey Gorokholinsky's performance of the same selection also on YouTube.
Post Edited (2016-03-25 21:18)
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Author: Lelia Loban ★2017
Date: 2016-03-25 18:22
Thanks for the link! I've written down the name of Amaury Viduvier as another clarinet player whose recordings I'll want to hear. The link is also a good one to hang onto in case anybody ever pops up here with the old notion that double-tonguing is impossible on the clarinet.
Lelia
http://www.scoreexchange.com/profiles/Lelia_Loban
To hear the audio, click on the "Scorch Plug-In" box above the score.
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Author: seabreeze
Date: 2016-03-25 21:15
For many decades clarinetists have been double tonguing. Al Galladoro did it in the 50s, Klezmer players have been doing it forever; in recent times Charles Neidich, Paul Meyer, Milan Rericha, Mate Bekavac, Martin Frost, Alexey Gorokholinsky, and many others have flashed out streams of multiple articulation.
But Viduvier's articulation here is "sui generis"--in a class by itself. His double tonguing is light as a feather and crisp as a potato chip. Neatly executed all the way. No noise, hesitation or distortion of sound--just a fully realised "right out in front" characteristic clarinet tone. Effortless and as rapid as a virtuoso flutist's or violinist's. At least as good as Raphael Mendez's on trumpet. He has crossed over into new territory with this performance. Anybody who can articulate at this speed with such flair can play up to tempo the first clarinet parts in those old band transcriptions that clarinetists have always simplified or fudged over. They can play any violin concerto (adjusted for range and harmonics, of course) at the same speed as the violinists do.
That's if this performance is not a fluke and he can repeat it at will. I wonder if he is just a prodigy at this sort of thing or whether he has discovered a technique that can be taught to others? Only time will tell. If other players can duplicate this, the clarinet may well never be the same.
Post Edited (2016-03-26 07:25)
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2016-03-25 22:44
Funny you should mention the technique. Alexey Gorokholinsky has an 18 minute video explaining how he does it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qoInFr4b8kQ
For my money it makes the most sense of any tutorial I've seen.
..............Paul Aviles
P.S. He also happens to be a Viotto mouthpiece player.
Post Edited (2016-03-25 22:45)
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Author: seabreeze
Date: 2016-03-26 00:18
Thanks, Paul. I have seen the Gorokhloinsky video and do find his performances remarkable and appreciate his clear and helpful explanation. The same holds for Robert Spring's performances and explanations of double tonguing. But something in the lightness and distinctness of Viduvier's performance seems to me to definitively cross the line between an impressive exhibit and a multiple tonguing technique that is as musical and natural sounding as what one routinely expects from trumpeters, violinists, and flutists. I can not avoid wondering what he is doing differently to get the appealing detachment and loft in his tonguing. Perhaps I am being unfair to other players who use their multiple articulation technique well enough and exaggerating Viduvier's accomplishment? If so, I apologize. But I am not only impressed by his articulation, I actually musically enjoy listening to it. That's the difference between feeling a "wow, holy cow, is that possible," sensation versus sitting back and relishing "how beautiful and nice that is!"
And yes, to do a reality check here, it would take much more to duplicate violin articulation, which would also have to encompass such effects as pizzicato. I do tend to become enthusiastic when I hear "extended techniques" that really work well, since often such effects turn out to be less than musically interesting.
Post Edited (2016-03-26 03:12)
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Author: WhitePlainsDave
Date: 2016-03-26 08:27
I may not be a good enough clarinet player to even have the right to watch this performance.
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2016-03-26 15:26
My point is more that it IS a technique that can be taught. Most everyone can achieve this technique following the suggestions (and hints to what YOU really experience when you do this) of Alexey.
I find their performances closer I suppose.......both equally amazing to behold.
..............Paul Aviles
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Author: Lelia Loban ★2017
Date: 2016-03-26 18:38
Thanks for the link, Paul. I wish that video had been around thirty years ago, when I got into a contrarian mood and taught myself to double-tongue simply because I'd read somewhere (in that pre-Internet dark age) that double-tonguing was impossible on reed instruments. Using the video would've been far faster and better than my diy efforts!
Lelia
http://www.scoreexchange.com/profiles/Lelia_Loban
To hear the audio, click on the "Scorch Plug-In" box above the score.
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2016-03-29 09:06
I was always curious if language has anything to do with staccato. I'm sure culture and starting early, etc. Maybe even genetics. I know some people who with little practice could play staccato significantly faster than me with all the practice in the world. Even without the instrument, you can see how one person can move their tongue back and forth faster than another. Your starting point doesn't necessarily mean anything to the end point... but if often does. Maybe similar to sprint runners vs. long distance runners.
For some reason I see many French and Eastern European fast tonguers. Not that there aren't any from many countries, but I mean proportionally many from those countries. I don't know if there's anything to it other than it's more common to learn it there or the type of the music they have.
I'm going to try that DG method shown in the video. It feels like if I try the D, I get the back of my tongue against the reed... not so good (hurts even). If I use TK the tongue is too low and the response is not good. After 25 years I accept that my tongue doesn't move in the best way naturally, the way it does for some players without even trying... I'll see if it improves.
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2016-03-29 09:39
I think the pattern he uses is not T-K or even D-G. I hear it as Th-Gh as in "the" and a forward version of the guttural German "gh." The front stroke is made back of the tongue tip and the back stroke is made without a "click." I learned this from the great recorder player Dan Laurin, and it instantly calmed a "pecky" staccato.
Ken Shaw
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2016-10-18 05:21
Quote:
Funny you should mention the technique. Alexey Gorokholinsky has an 18 minute video explaining how he does it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qoInFr4b8kQ
For my money it makes the most sense of any tutorial I've seen.
..............Paul Aviles Glad you brought this guy up so I wouldn't have to. Alexey's playing technique is amazing, and he explains it as though even I could one day learn!
US Army Japan Band
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Author: JKL
Date: 2016-10-23 23:38
Did you ever hear Mr. Viduvier´s version with a copy of Paganini´s music in front of you? I have an old Ricordi copy. First, following this copy it´s not Caprice no. 5, but 6. The section which is not manageable with double tongue he is playing an octave lower, concocting what works best for showing off. At every big leap - which wouldn´t work with double tongue - he makes a significant rest. Of course he is a splendid player with a very well working setup.
I play double tongue - on a German setup - and I tried to learn the first line, an I got it within ten minutes. So it´s not rocket science.
Ken wrote:
"I think the pattern he uses is not T-K or even D-G. I hear it as Th-Gh as in "he" and a forward version of the guttural German "gh." The front stroke is made back of the tongue tip and the back stroke is made without a "click."
The point is, PHYSICALLY there is no difference between TK and DG when playing clarinet. It´s only a difference if you SPEAK. Perhaps it makes a difference, but in a more complicated way. I have the impression that I don´t always touch the roof of the mouth when using the "G", especially in a fast tempo. So the "G" is possibly actually similar to a German "ch" (like in the German word "Eiche").
- And speed is not the only issue to focus on. Citius, altius, fortius may be good for Olympics, but for music? I think the "DG" and "TK" idea can be important nuances of musical impression. For example in some passages of "Dances of Galanta" it would be perhaps better to have a clear, powerful and real staccato-like separation - so think "TK" and not "DG". Other passages may require a different approach.
JKL
Post Edited (2016-10-24 02:00)
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Author: Wes
Date: 2016-11-02 23:26
Thanks to Ken Shaw for his comments on tonguing. I've tried his ideas and they work.
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