 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Clarsax
Date: 2016-03-23 21:07
Hello,
I recently acquired a Bb 10S which I found great in tone and response, it is a joy to play but it play hissy on Bb register key
The cork pad register key is already domed (this make me think that the previous owner knew this) but the Bb is still hissy
This 10S is a great player, I would like to keep it but I have to solve this problem.
Can a single note convict the great rest of the range? Yes, it is for me... unfortunately
Post Edited (2016-03-23 21:07)
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2016-03-23 22:20
How much venting does the speaker key pad have? If it's too close, then it'll hiss, so remove the speaker key and see if that makes it any better. And also while the speaker key is off the instrument, check the speaker tube isn't occluded with fluff.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2016-03-24 05:00
Check the beveling of the pad - also the height.
Take a Pipe cleaner and go inside the register tube (remove key obviously) - also try going into the register hole with the end up an air spray can tube, as they work even better!!! I once found junk right after a famous repair tech said there wasn't any with the spray can tube. Do not spray air into it 
http://www.SkypeClarinetLessons.com
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Author: Clarsax
Date: 2016-03-24 20:13
Attachment: P3248294.JPG (822k)
Attachment: P3248295.JPG (776k)
Attachment: P3248298.JPG (726k)
Thanks for your replies!
yes I checked the tube and it is perfectly clean, also I slightly bent the key and the action is farly open, can't do more otherwise it will be too high to engage with the thumb (alread tried also)
Here add some pictures
I tried to remove the key and hiss is still there almost the same. What I noticed also is that the Bb is in tune and do not accept any pin without loose dramatically intonation, it is just a-30% of clearly and volume
I'm thinking seriously to resell it, I am discouraged :-(
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2016-03-24 21:09
Put it down to bad design if it's still bad - throat Bb with the standard fingering is always a compromise and some clarinets are better than others when it comes to the tone quality of this notoriously bad note.
Just out of interest - have you tried it with a slightly softer reed?
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Clarsax
Date: 2016-03-24 21:22
yes I did Chris, same results, the Bb is always back than all entire range
... then nothing to do?
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Author: Bob Bernardo
Date: 2016-03-24 21:52
Replace the pad. Clean the tone hole, probable with a pipe cleaner. Nice photos. I think the 3rd photo resulted with my answer.
Designer of - Vintage 1940 Cicero Mouthpieces and the La Vecchia mouthpieces
Yamaha Artist 2015
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Author: Clarsax
Date: 2016-03-24 21:58
Bob, the tone hole is clean
which pad will work better than the domed one already installed?
As said before, even without the key the hiss is still there...
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Author: BartHx
Date: 2016-03-25 08:40
Perhaps someone here knows more about the differences between the 10 and the 10S than I do. Do you know for sure whether or not that is the original vent tube? It appears very different from the vent tube on my 10. If the vent tube has been changed to an inappropriate length or diameter, it could cause the same problems as a misadjusted key. The vent tube in your photos (very nice photos by the way) seems to have a collar around it to which the wood is fitted -- somewhat in the style of the older Selmer large bores. The vent tube on my 10 (with a very nice pinch Bb) has just a narrow, rolled edge exposed. Can anyone verify that this tube is one of the intended differences between the two models?
Another thought relative to changing pads . . . . The purpose of beveling the edge of a cork register key pad is to improve the venting by allowing the air to flow more smoothly around the vent. To my eye, the indentation on the pad seems to be deep enough that it might tend to defeat that intent. I don't know that I have ever seen a cork pad with that deep an impression from the tone hole. However, if the problem is still there playing with the register key removed, that would indicate that the problem is not with the pad. If the situation improves playing with the register key removed, I would replace the pad (probably with another beveled cork) and check the spring tension.
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Author: Bob Bernardo
Date: 2016-03-25 10:09
Wow, I didn't read that. My apologies.
I'm a bit stuck for giving you advice. I would surely use a tapered cork pad. I would also have a repairman pop out this register tube and check it for any defects. Some repairmen sometimes shorten this tube a bit on Buffet clarinets, mainly the A clarinets, because the tubes are longer compared to the Bb horns, but I'm not sure if they do this on Selmer's. You could probably check and see if you still hear the hiss before popping the tube back in. If you do, well you need to look at the bore, maybe a tiny crack? Unlikely. After that reseal the tube.
It's probably not this, but look for a crack when the tube is popped out. Maybe the air is hissing from a crack and the air is bouncing off of the tube. Highly unlikely, but since the tube is out it's a good time to check this area of the wood.
A repairman can also change the roundness and angle of the tube so the air flow bounces in a slightly different direction.
Keep us posted, this is very interesting. Since I do my own repairs I've very curious. I wish you live locally. I'm sure it's an easy fix, just weird! Best of luck.
Designer of - Vintage 1940 Cicero Mouthpieces and the La Vecchia mouthpieces
Yamaha Artist 2015
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2016-03-25 20:44
That is the original speaker tube in your 10S - they have a very sharp edge to them and added to the heavy spring tension on the speaker key (which is probably as it has been since it was made) that will cut into the speaker key pad.
I had a 10S for a little while in the late '80s but much preferred my BT/CT set.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2016-03-25 22:31
May seem contrary, but have you tried it very close? The opening looks egregious to me......should be no more than the thickness of a nickel (2mm tops).
And have you tried a multitude of vent fingerings? One may work better than the others.
................Paul Aviles
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Author: Burt
Date: 2016-03-26 17:51
If cleaning the vent tube doesn't solve the problem, try increasing the clearance of the pad from the hole. This can be done by having a tech bend the key away from the body slightly, or by routing the area under the key so you can depress the key farther.
Burt Marks
enthusiastic clarinetist
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Author: Tony Pay ★2017
Date: 2016-03-26 18:40
Benade (in Fundamentals of Musical Acoustics 2nd edition, Dover 1990, pp 500-503) discusses the effect of sharp tonehole edges on air turbulence, and how sharp edges bring forward the onset of turbulence as you play louder.
You can get a sense of how that happens by imagining, or experimenting with, a faucet that delivers a stream of water into a basin. At low flow level, the tube of water is smooth; but the surface begins to break up as you increase the flow. You can delay the onset of that, though, by rounding the sharp internal edge of the faucet aperture.
Anyhow, Benade says that slightly rounding tonehole edges very often improves instrument response, and years ago I had Jon Steward of Howarths carry out such work on several of my instruments, inside and out, to good effect.
The degree of rounding is very small; on the outside of the bore a few swipes with fine wet-and-dry round the tonehole suffices, though inside special tools are required. According to Benade, it's worth doing this too at the joins of the various instrument components, as there is rarely a perfect fit between, say, barrel and top joint.
It may be that you can improve your throat Bb this way, too. (The hiss that you're hearing is turbulence, after all.) You can try the idea out by folding a small piece of fine wet-and-dry into a right-angle, and then twisting it around a few times in the top of the speaker tube after taking the key off.
If that helps, it might be worth taking the tube out and repeating the process at the other end.
I played on 10S instruments for several years (I used a 10S in recording Spohr 1 and 2) and I'm sure I did all I've described above. The throat Bb was certainly acceptable.
You don't want to have a setup that results in your putting excessive amounts of air down the instrument, of course; that would be a good way to exacerbate the hiss.
Tony
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Author: Clarsax
Date: 2016-04-05 18:33
Thanks to everyone for all replies and interesting suggestions.
I do not want (and I do not have the time) to walk on the experiments path regarding the tube etc.
Adding ''resonance'' fingers closing the 2 toneholes on upper joint is the only solution I found to mitigate the hiss and it is acceptable, and I'm sure that it is still a very good pro clarinet if used professionally
Anyway I decided to sell it, PM me if anyone is interested (EU preferred)
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