 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Arnoldstang
Date: 2015-06-28 01:27
I like the mystery surrounding this. Who is Mr Vecchia? It's hard to believe someone would retain their anonymity over so many years while devoting themself to this craft.
Freelance woodwind performer
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Author: seabreeze
Date: 2015-06-28 01:59
The mouthpiece was designed by Bob Bernardo, who used to design reeds for Rico and is a frequent contributor to this list.
You can hear Joe Bonfiglio try out the La Vecchia on YouTube if you search for
La Vecchia Classical Mouthpiece Joe Bonfiglio.
Post Edited (2018-02-15 08:05)
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Author: James S
Date: 2015-06-28 02:50
LaVecchia is actually a common last name and an adjective representing age (but not for people). It is sometimes used as a noun to mean an old woman. It does not mean "renewal."
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Author: GLHopkins
Date: 2015-06-28 03:03
Listening to the video, Bonfiglio sounds ok on it. I'm sure he could make any mouthpiece sound good. I don't see how this could surpass Behn's, Fobes' or Grabner's offerings or the offerings of other fine mouthpiece craftsmen. The price is attractive, but so is the price of the D'Adarrio Reserve, and they are fine mouthpieces, and at about half the price of the La Vecchia.
I guess we'll be hearing more about them in the future if they're great mouthpieces. I wish them success.
Post Edited (2015-06-28 03:11)
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Author: donald
Date: 2015-06-28 09:42
All very good until....
" I was so excited to learn a stunning fact about the flow of air in mouthpieces. (Of course I added this to the design of the La Vecchia Classica mouthpieces.) As you blow into mouthpieces the air flow isn’t a straight forward flow of air. Instead, as you blow the air it starts to spin in a clockwise direction through your horn. I thought players may find this interesting.
Here is another very interesting fact . As you cross the equator the air flow turns counter clockwise and these mouthpieces have to be adjusted accordingly! I also adjust my reeds with this in mind."
I showed this to a scientist friend this afternoon (who has, in fact, done lots of work and research into sound, acoustics and airflow/pressure waves), his response was that it gave him a headache to read this. I asked him if he'd write a refutation for this board and his response was "it's too stupid, there are too many reasons why this is stupid, and they have obviously paid someone to tell them this, it's easier to just let them believe it"
I have no opinion on how good the mouthpieces are, I'm sure they are very good and players will sound great on them.
Post Edited (2015-06-28 09:43)
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Author: EaubeauHorn
Date: 2015-06-28 22:15
The air flow thing is hilarious. The bad thing about the internet is that misinformation gets passed along as well, and perhaps better, than accurate information. The coriolis effect and mouthpieces!
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Author: Mark Charette ★2017
Date: 2015-06-28 22:49
EaubeauHorn wrote:
> The air flow thing is hilarious. The bad thing about the
> internet is that misinformation gets passed along as well, and
> perhaps better, than accurate information. The coriolis effect
> and mouthpieces!
You mean my toilet won't flow the other direction in Oz? Horrors!
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Author: donald
Date: 2015-06-29 01:21
I don't know about your toilet, but the whole "water flows in the other direction" things DOES actually work that way- in a perfect or ideal situation... for water. This situation does not at all transer to the clarinet, apart from anything else there is very little air flowing down the clarinet.
At least one BB contributor disagrees with me on this- but consider that the air held in your lungs (which you may be able to exhale in 3 or 4 secconds without the clarinet in your mouth) is exhaled slowly over 30 to 45 seconds. Once that air (small amounts being slowly rationed out) gets past the small aperture between reed and mouthpiece tip the compression is greatly reduced and the airspeed you perceive drops rapidly. There IS airflow in the mouthpiece (which is what La Vechia claims is spinning) but almost none "flowing" in the clarinet. Once you get past the reed- the sound is being created by <pressure waves> NOT <flowing air>.
That fuzzy sound you hear when a pad is too low? NOT a stream of air from the mouthpiece blowing against the pad but pressure waves travelling through stationary air.
That said, there may be rotational airflow issues in the mouthpiece- these would have minimal effect on the tone (which is determined by pressure waves once past the baffle) and for too many reasons to mention will not be influenced by the coriolis effect.
Post Edited (2015-06-29 05:58)
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Author: ned
Date: 2015-06-29 15:39
''Now is the time, the 21st century, to make something better than mouthpieces such as the Kasper and Chedevilles which as far as I can tell, are stuck back in an era 40 to 60 years ago.''
''The old represents some of the older mouthpieces that are often sold at extravagant prices, simply due to their name only. For example the Chedeville and Kasper mouthpieces.''
Well now, what sort of advertising do you call this?
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Author: ned
Date: 2015-06-29 15:44
''You mean my toilet won't flow the other direction in Oz? Horrors!''
I have visited the USA dozens of times and, upon arriving at the hotel, I'd relax with a long bath, and after that I'd amuse myself and check to see the direction of the flow down the bath plughole.
You can make it spin any way you like, with the aid of a digit.
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Author: JHowell
Date: 2015-06-29 18:00
When I played in NZ, the vortex thing was one of the first things I checked. The toilet in my house swirled the same direction as in the US. Anybody who thinks air "flows through" a mouthpiece should try the old experiment of tying to blow out a candle flame using sound from the mouthpiece (and reed, of course) alone.
Some mouthpieces have gotten more consistent with improved manufacturing, and there are a lot of bad Chedevilles, more so all the time as the good ones get played until they can no longer be refaced or some refacer starts hacking at the chamber, but there is nothing truly new in mouthpieces, or in advertising.
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2015-06-29 18:15
Just for the record, there are toilets (and other various water centered appliances) that guide the flow of water out a certain way.
But the vortex "theory" of water flowing down a drain has to do with the Earth's rotation and our position on it. [I refuse to take a position on the 'clarinet air flow' thing. All I know is that the air column vibrates.]
So I just wanted to remind everyone that the Earth (as far as I know) is STILL not flat. And it rotates around the sun, not the other way 'round.
.............Paul Aviles
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Author: seabreeze
Date: 2015-06-29 19:10
There have been in the past and certainly will be in the future clarinet mouthpiece designs that play well yet vary considerably from either the Chedeville or Kaspar design. Consider the Vandoren Diamond Perfecta from the Cahuzac era, the Langenus and the Brillhart (which had a considerable following during the swing era), the old table-logo Selmer that Matson liked to work on, the Stowell-Wells-Schneider, the Bob Mario (which many California clarinetists including Kalmen Bloch and a host of studio players prefered), the Wardell (which Kell played), the Peter Eaton, the Jim Kanter (which Martin Frost uses), the Zinner-based MoBa that Morales and many others play, the Vandoren M30D and M40D, heavily influenced by German and Viennese designs, the Kuckmeier B2, which comes directly from the Viennese tradition, the off-center Signature series by Bradford Behn, and so on.
Post Edited (2015-06-29 21:34)
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Author: Arnoldstang
Date: 2015-06-29 19:20
In any case, 'hats off' to Bob Bernardo for his initiative in bringing his new mouthpiece to fruition. I hope he sells thousands and people love them.
Freelance woodwind performer
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Author: donald
Date: 2015-06-30 02:39
I agree- the Grand Concert Thick blank reeds he designed for Rico were GREAT.
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Author: JHowell
Date: 2015-06-30 05:27
I have examples of most of those mouthpieces,the vintage ones anyway. One of my favorites is the Vandoren perfecta, but none of them, selmer, wells, Zinner, Riffault, Otto link, Kanter, Pyne, vary "considerably" from Chedevilles, any more than one chedeville varies from the next. I've played cheds that were faced wide open and hogged out and Riffaults with long, close facings. No matter the blank, no matter the craftsman, some mouthpieces just flat play and some don't. Yes, there were the duck-bill langenuses and the bonades with table grooves (not a modern innovation), and there is the angled Behn. But they all, even the M30D, of which I have several, are fundamentally French mouthpieces, and the differences are minute. Does the M30D have a small "Viennese" chamber? I have a Wells with a chamber that is smaller. One maker scoops the baffle deeper, another makes the bore larger, another shaves the beak down or starts with a smaller-chambered blank. None of this is revolutionary, and the qualities that make my 1920s Selmer and my Rico X5, separated by nearly 100 years, both great mouthpieces are the same. I'm certainly open to the vecchia being a great mouthpiece, but the proof will be in the playing. If the bore and chamber are small enough to play in tune I'm game.
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Author: ned
Date: 2015-07-02 04:25
''In any case, 'hats off' to Bob Bernardo for his initiative in bringing his new mouthpiece to fruition.''
Fine...now if he can just get his advertising hype sorted out...
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Author: robertnsmith
Date: 2016-03-17 02:32
Hey Everyone,
I actually play a La Vecchia mouthpiece made by Bob. Prior to this I played a Grabner K-11* which I liked very much. My reason for switching was that I felt that it just took too much work to get the sound I wanted from the K-11*. While it's a great mouthpiece, and I still own it, it just wasn't the mouthpiece for me in the end.
That being said, I found what I was looking for in the La Vecchia mouthpiece. It gave me a very similar tone to the Grabner but requires almost no embouchure to produce that dark yet big sound. It's remarkable. I can put the instrument down for weeks on end, pick it up, and no matter what I do still get the same sound.
Having played the clarinet for more than 18 years and studying performance in college, I am always looking for the next best thing and do enjoy experimenting with different things. However, I stopped searching for mouthpieces when I started playing the La Vecchia. It's the perfect combination of tone, articulation, and tuning. I'm a firm believer that the right mouthpiece is the one where you no longer have to think. It allows you to make music, not concentrate on making the mouthpiece work. For me, the La Vecchia is that mouthpiece!!!
Great job Bob! Exceptional mouthpiece!
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Author: Bob Bernardo
Date: 2016-03-17 08:04
Thanks Robert! Glad someone likes it on this site! Jeez I spent a lot of time at California Institute of Technology so these are facts regarding air flow. You can't see hurricane winds, but the air always spins in the same direction. You kind of have to be smart to get into a school like this.
As the designer of the Grand Concert reeds 18 years ago I made the right side of the reeds a tiny bit lighter in measurement. Well they were a huge success. I left the company a long time ago, a year after designing these reeds and the reeds are not as good. Not even close to what I designed. I did this design because of mouthpiece embouchure pressure and wind flow. Same with the Mitchell Lurie reeds. When I joined Rico Mitchell was selling about 725,000 reeds a year. After I redesigned them and left Rico the sales jumped to over 1 1/2 million.
So folks do some research, become a shade open minded, try the mouthpieces for free, then express your opinions. But hold your thoughts until you try one! The mouthpieces are not new, just the name is. I've been doing this since 1984 under different names. La Vecchia rudely translates from the old to the new. Old being the old Kasper's and Chedeville's. These are not Chedevilles nor Kaspers, they are darker sounding. Since 1984 only 2 people have asked for their money back. 1 was a student. One of the mouthpieces I designed had the name Ciaccia on it. About 5 or 6 years it sold on ebay for $700. Another model was the one of the first 6 Gennusa mouthpiece that also had the name Ciaccia under Gennusa's name. I've seen these sell for $400 plus on ebay.
That's the short history of the mouthpieces. Bob
Designer of - Vintage 1940 Cicero Mouthpieces and the La Vecchia mouthpieces
Yamaha Artist 2015
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Author: nellsonic
Date: 2016-03-17 08:58
I bought a La Vecchia on spec after trying out the full line of Vandorens and many Fobes and MOBA mouthpieces at our regional woodwind specialty store (RDG in Los Angeles). The La Vecchia performed leagues better than any of these others for me, and I'm very happy with the purchase. Bob was able to craft something that worked very well for me after a short interview on the phone.
Currently my primary mouthpiece is a significantly more expensive Wadkowski that the maker customized for me in person just a few weeks ago, but the La Vecchia holds up very well in comparison, and I actually might still choose it first for certain repertorie. Until last year I had played on a Bay mouthpiece he made for me when I was his student. That mouthpiece beat all competitors I ever came across for a couple of decades, but with these two gems now in my case I can hardly stand to play the Bay anymore, nor do I need to! It did serve me well for a long time though, and I am grateful for that.
Anders
Post Edited (2016-03-17 10:39)
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Author: seabreeze
Date: 2016-03-17 09:44
Bob,
Can you say what length and tip open your La Vecchia normally comes with? Your website doesn't give any list of facings or mention if you just have a standard one.
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Author: Bob Bernardo
Date: 2016-03-17 09:44
Thanks nellsonic! I remember you well. I surely don't mind being compared to Wadkowski. We have a great respect for each other. He's a good man and I'm glad you got one of his mouthpieces. If you are in the LA area stop by and we can take a look at the La Vecchia mouthpiece and see if some minor adjustments can be made, so both mouthpieces feel and sound the same.
Designer of - Vintage 1940 Cicero Mouthpieces and the La Vecchia mouthpieces
Yamaha Artist 2015
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Author: Grabnerwg
Date: 2016-03-17 09:48
Getting back to robertnsmith, regarding the CXZ_K11*.
That mouthpiece was designed to be a HIGH resistance mouthpiece. At the time, I firmly believed that the only way to get a "dark" sound, was to use a fairly closed tip mouthpiece, with a fairly hard reed. A lot of people must have agreed with me, as I since it was introduced more than ten years ago, I have sold literally thousands of that particular model. But, I will agree with you that there IS a lot of resistance.
I'm not going to apologize, nor am I going to change that model. It still sells fairly briskly, and a lot of people say good things about it.
It more recent years, however, I have been developing mouthpieces that have much less resistance and allow a more free-blowing experience. Several of my more recent mouthpiece models, such as the CXZ_G13, have more open tips and require a more relaxed embouchure and breath control.
It's good to have many options, I think.
Walter Grabner
www.clarinetxpress.com
NEW Virtuoso Mouthpiece!
It lets you play the way you want to!
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Author: Wes
Date: 2016-03-17 11:26
I recall that I once checked the interior of the wing joint of a Salzer bassoon that had not been swabbed for a while. The debris deposited in the interior was in a clearly shown spiral indicating a rotating air movement. The ML mouthpieces that I use are symmetrical, so I doubt that they have any rotational air flow.
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Author: sax panther
Date: 2016-03-17 13:50
Walter
I've got a K11*. I'm very pleased with it. I don't find it resistant, but I used to play more open pieces (B45, B40) so maybe that's why. I have tried other mouthpieces, and sometimes use a rico X10, but always end up coming back to the K11*.
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Author: Mojo
Date: 2016-03-17 17:21
I think most if not all great mouthpieces were designed without an accurate understanding of the accoustic science that is involved. Many designs are inspired by some type of aerodynamic visualization. But it is the empirical testing and understanding that is important. I wish science could help more but it is too complex to do better than trial and error.
MojoMP.com
Mojo Mouthpiece Work LLC
MojoMouthpieceWork@yahoo.com
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Author: bassclarinet101 ★2017
Date: 2016-03-17 18:27
I think the science is certainly complex, but I don't think it will ever be too complex to work with. It just takes a well-made experiment to make progress in the understanding of mouthpieces, which I imagine is partially hindered by what is currently considered trade secret.
-Daniel
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Author: robertnsmith
Date: 2020-01-18 09:16
Responding to GrabnerWG.
Completely agree and it’s a fabulous mouthpiece. I still use the mouthpiece and agree it’s a wonderful mouthpiece with a great tone. Unfortunately, I’m not playing as much as I once did and I wasn’t able to easily keep my embouchure where I needed it.
That being said, I did use it earlier this year for The Nutcracker and it’s a great product. I didn’t mean in anyway to criticize your mouthpieces at all but just to state that there are many options and good mouthpieces out there.
I’m very lucky to have one of yours and Bobs!
Clarinet equipment is such a personal choice and thankfully there are amazing people producing amazing products!
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Author: Bob Bernardo
Date: 2020-01-19 02:26
There are some very good mouthpiece makers on this site. Several have been around a very long time and I think we all know it's a matter of taste with how you people like various mouthpieces. When players find their dream mouthpiece I'm most happy, whether it is mine or designed by someone else. I'm proud of my work and I'm sure Walter is as well. Walter is a good guy as well as many others. Brad Behn and I have crossed paths and he is a caring gentleman too! It's a tight small group of us and I like all of these guys. We all care.
Designer of - Vintage 1940 Cicero Mouthpieces and the La Vecchia mouthpieces
Yamaha Artist 2015
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Author: jeeves
Date: 2020-01-19 08:13
The Coriolis Effect is so negligible at the scale of a clarinet mouthpiece that I don't see how it could affect airflow in any meaningful way. The hurricane example Bob cited isn't relevant to the discussion of clarinet mouthpiece airflow, as it's at completely different scale.
At a small time/length scale, the Coriolis Effect has basically no impact on which way a vortex rotates: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coriolis_force#Draining_in_bathtubs_and_toilets.
Another thing that struck me as odd on the website was wording of the blurb, "To get everything right, I had to build two special computers to help with the wind flow patterns and vibrations of the La Vecchia mouthpieces. These computerized programs were compared and tested using several mouthpieces throughout the world." I've never heard of another programmer describing a simulation or really any program as a "computerized program" or a custom rig or computing cluster that they've built as a "special computer".
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Author: donald
Date: 2020-01-19 11:41
Yes it's all very unscientific. Yet regardless, Bob seems to actually make good mouthpieces from all accounts.
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Author: Dan Shusta
Date: 2020-01-19 18:59
Bob Bernardo is a pretty smart guy.
From the BB archives dated 2010/10/15: "After I finished the music program at Peabody I went to Cal Tech, studied molding and computers."
So, Bob actually has two degrees.
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Author: donald
Date: 2020-01-20 02:56
As I've written elsewhere, the guy did GREAT work at Rico, and many people like his mouthpiece work... the statements above regarding the Coriolis effect, however, were considered somewhat comic by the scientists I consulted (yes, I mean real working scientists with Phds etc who get paid for doing science, my oldest best friend is one so I've met many over the years through him).
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Author: J. J.
Date: 2020-01-20 04:38
As a matter of skeptical rigor, if you were to remove everything Bob himself has written on this BBoard, is there any evidence or testimony in existence that would indicate he did “great work at Rico?”
I realize that this is a fairly antagonistic question, and I apologize for that, but I ask it in earnest all the same.
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Author: fernie121
Date: 2020-01-20 05:44
Bob designed reeds at Rico, I forget which model but they had an enthusiastic following. His mouthpieces that he sells now are nothing short of awesome. Especially for the price point. Though I’ve now moved towards a Behn mouthpiece, Bernardo’s mouthpiece he made for me is among the very best I’ve ever played. The guy knows his stuff. I’ve also played a BD5 he refaced for me which was the best I’ve ever played with a Legere reed. Everything I’ve played by him has one thing in common and that is they are easy on the embouchure and have a wonderful sound. This is all just my single personal experience. There are many others who have similar stories working with Bob.
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Author: donald
Date: 2020-01-20 08:16
My teacher, Dr Dave Etheridge, was very positive about Bob's work at Rico, and regarded the old Blue box (of 5) GC thick blank reeds (1995 ish) to be very good reeds (he previously played Morre, Vandoren and ones he made himself). I've never tried his mouthpieces, and while I'm critical of some of his claims there's no doubt the evidence is there that they are good...
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Author: J. J.
Date: 2020-01-21 00:40
Donald, if Dr. Etheridge did mention Bob by name, then I thank you for mentioning it. It would be the first reference I’ve heard from anyone in the clarinet world with (second hand) direct knowledge of him prior to his activities on this BBoard.
I remain curious, however, what you consider to be “evidence” that his mouthpieces are good.
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Author: Bob Bernardo
Date: 2020-01-21 01:23
For the record - Yes I designed the Grand Concert reed lines at Rico. It is not a secret that I left Rico because of them using Pesticides. I'd still be there if they didn't use these stupid chemicals/poisons. What a shame. I was also in charge of the Mitchell Lurie line of reeds and I beefed those up for Mitchell. He was a GREAT man to have a as friend. Fellow player can email me if you need info. I was also in charge of the Hemke alto and soprano sax reeds. A really good guy, now dead, was in charge of the tenor reeds; Joe Spang. When Joe was there, these were the good days at Rico when Rico washed the reeds at 160 degrees using sodium barcarbonate, (baking soda). I was also in charge the Eb and German clarinet reeds.
I should be going to court finally, after over 20 years from filing the lawsuit, suing Rico for wrecking my life. Every day I live in pain. I've had some surgeries because of this. Somehow Rico remains in business. I hope this case will be over with by May, about 4 or so months from now.
I can also make the Legere reeds play much better. I will adjust reeds for players, but I don't like doing this. The reeds are just made wrong.
Designer of - Vintage 1940 Cicero Mouthpieces and the La Vecchia mouthpieces
Yamaha Artist 2015
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Author: Kim6141
Date: 2020-01-27 14:01
I am currently using bob's mouthpiece exclusively. I have all the 1940cicero, kaspar and La vecchia he designed. They all have different tone concepts but they have one thing in common. With special overtones and brilliant colors, I can project the sound to the back of the concert hall without any extra effort. There's only one thing I need to do! Just assemble the clarinet and fit bob's mouthpiece.
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2020-01-27 22:42
Apart from the well-shaped sound, I find the Vintage Cicero 1940 model to be unusually reed friendly. Not nearly as finicky as others I have used or have put in my drawer. And it holds the sound - and the pitch - without help from me if the reed is well-adjusted.
Karl
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Author: Bob Bernardo
Date: 2020-01-28 06:09
Thank you Kim and Karl! Part of the reason for being reed friendly is the width or distance between the left and right side rails. Measurements are a secret. There are other reasons as well, which I would be happy to discuss through emails. As for the brilliance in sound, these are the overtones we hear and why this sound carries so well in large halls.
I'll be honored to share my thought and ideas through emails.
Designer of - Vintage 1940 Cicero Mouthpieces and the La Vecchia mouthpieces
Yamaha Artist 2015
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Author: Kim6141
Date: 2020-01-28 11:51
Yes. I'm happy to be able to play a great mouthpiece. Knowing you and making friends is one of the very happy things. If I lived in the US, we could have done a lot together
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