 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2016-03-14 20:33
I had a student this week bring me her marching clarinet - a decent looking Yamaha plastic one - so I could try to free a binding long B. The first thing I realized once I had it in my hands was that only the left hand lever was binding. The mechanism was perfectly free when I used the right hand long B. So, the lever seemed to be binding on the rod screw, much as has been discussed in nron's thread. When I tried to back the screw out to see what first aid I could apply (she needs it for a marching band trip this weekend), the screw was in so tightly that I couldn't budge it with my screwdriver. I don't what the last person to tighten it used - maybe a hydraulic driver? I was starting to damage the slot, so I stopped and told her she's have to take it to a shop where, if they had to completely destroy the screw to get it out, at least they'd have replacements on hand. I did drop some key oil around the ends of the sleeves, but to no effect.
Is there anything more I could have tried as first-aid to get the screw loose or to restore some motion to the key?
Karl
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Author: knotty
Date: 2016-03-14 20:38
I've had good success with applying heat from a small soldering iron.
~ Musical Progress: None ~
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2016-03-14 21:02
It's usually rust that causes screws to be stuck. Tightening hard by someone pretty much never causes screws to be stuck.
It sounds like you can still move the lever even though it's resistant. Move the lever back and forth and check (by looking at the slot) if the screw is rotating with it. Check carefully, sometimes it looks like it's not because it's so little, when it actually does.
If it does, the rod screw is stuck inside the key but has some resistance in the posts too. If it doesn't, it's stuck in the posts (one or both) and has some resistance inside the hinge tube too.
Heating and alternating a degreaser (e.g. lighter fluid) and a penetrating oil (or if you don't have any regular thin oil) can help. Since it's plastic be extra careful not to melt anything, especially if the screw is stuck in the posts. A soldering iron can be good, or a split electric heater.
Heat until you can hear/see the oil bubble/evaporate, as long as you don't damage the plastic.
Trying to open it it while it is hot can help too. Trying to close it and open it can help. If you even just begin to damage the head stop, since this will make it much more difficult. It's possible to reslot it without damaging the post, but this requires special tools.
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Author: Matt74
Date: 2016-03-14 22:09
It could definitely be rusted.
The post could also be bend out of alignment with the "post" that is in the clarinet body. If they aren't in perfect alignment the screw doesn't thread in right. (They are often not in perfect alignment.) If it was out of alignment and someone put it in wrong, they might have stripped the threads. If the screw rod is bent it can bind in the key. The key can also bind if the screw rod is at an angle to the posts, making the key bind with the posts.
Gently pushing the post a little to one side or the other might release the screw rod.
- Matthew Simington
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2016-03-14 23:15
The E/B key on Yamahas are mounted on point screws - some with and others without heads, so someone may have over-torqued it or even glued it in place making it difficult to remove.
Applying heat to the pillar and a drop of oil can help free things, but you have to be careful when using heat on plastic bodied clarinets as they can melt very easily.
Best to try and remove the E/B key by first removing the F/C and Ab/Eb keys (both mounted on a single rod screw), then remove the opposite point screw holding the E/B key in place, then unscrew the pillar with the stuck point screw and heat that up while it's off the instrument to attempt to free up and remove the screw.
You'll need to hold the pillar securely while doing this if the screw is really tight and so you've got better purchase on it, so use a hand vice and cushion the jaws lined with sheet aluminium or brass (if they're cross-hatched bare steel jaws) so it won't mark the pillar, or use a wooden hand vice.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2016-03-14 23:39
Chris, I don't have the instrument to look at because she took it with her on Saturday and has since gotten a tech to take it with a promise to get it back to her before her trip. But, as I'm trying picture what you're describing, I think the problem isn't there. It's the short rod screw holding the left hand lever in place - the two short rods holding the B/E and the C#/F# left hand levers are next to each other around the side of the bottom section and are definitely slotted. The mechanism down where the right hand F/C, Ab/Eb, F#/C# and E/B keys all assemble on the rods and screws that end at the bottom of the instrument are all moving freely and E/B can be played with the right hand. It's specifically the lever along the side of section that is operated with the left pinky that is binding.
Am I misunderstanding what you're describing?
Karl
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2016-03-15 01:13
Sorry - I got left and right mixed up.
One thing that can cause that is if there's a burr on the inside edge of the LH lever key barrel so when the rod screw is tightened, it catches on the burr and binds up the key. Countersinking the very ends of the hollow rods (key barrels) will ensure any burrs are removed and the suitable sized reamer is used to make sure the inside of the key barrel is clear from any burrs. Yamaha clarinets are the few that have screw heads on the stub pillars for the LH lever screws to screw into, so check they're secure in the joint. If they are slightly out of line, then that can cause the key to bind. So use a suitable sized screwdriver to check these stub pillars are secure.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Bob Bernardo
Date: 2016-03-15 02:37
All of the above is very good advice. If needed I've drilled out the screw and simply replaced it, but not on clarinets, only with saxophones.
You can grind down a normal Craftsman type of screw driver using one of those grinding wheels, about $50 at Harbor Freight or less and shape it into a jewelers screwdriver. The advantage is you will have one heck of a handle to grip the screwdriver and you should be able to break any tight screw.
Edit --- Wear safety glasses please
Designer of - Vintage 1940 Cicero Mouthpieces and the La Vecchia mouthpieces
Yamaha Artist 2015
Post Edited (2016-03-15 02:42)
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2016-03-15 03:05
Bob Bernardo wrote:
> All of the above is very good advice. If needed I've drilled
> out the screw and simply replaced it, but not on clarinets,
> only with saxophones.
Yes, I've seen my repair guy do that - in his shop. But the bigger issue than not really having a drilling jig precise enough for this at home is that, once the screw has been destroyed, I don't have replacements. She'd still have had to take it to a shop.
>
> You can grind down a normal Craftsman type of screw driver
> using one of those grinding wheels, about $50 at Harbor Freight
> or less and shape it into a jewelers screwdriver. The advantage
> is you will have one heck of a handle to grip the screwdriver
> and you should be able to break any tight screw.
>
That's an idea for me to keep in mind. I have regular jeweler's screwdrivers (and a couple sold specifically by Ferree). But the bigger handle might have helped. Or might have over-torqued the slot more easily?
Karl
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2016-03-15 03:07
clarnibass wrote:
> It sounds like you can still move the lever even though it's
> resistant. Move the lever back and forth and check (by looking
> at the slot) if the screw is rotating with it. Check carefully,
> sometimes it looks like it's not because it's so little, when
> it actually does.
>
> Heating and alternating a degreaser (e.g. lighter fluid) and a
> penetrating oil (or if you don't have any regular thin oil) can
> help.
> Trying to open it it while it is hot can help too. Trying to
> close it and open it can help.
Thanks. Good to remember for next time.
Karl
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2016-03-15 03:07
I confess using heat didn't occur to me. Thanks. Good to think of for next time.
Karl
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Author: Tony F
Date: 2016-03-15 04:51
I've found that one of the best penetrating oils I've come across is ordinary diesel fuel. A drop on a stuck screw will work its way into the tightest jam, but it takes time to work, I leave it for 24 hours.
Tony F.
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Author: knotty
Date: 2016-03-15 05:49
"I confess using heat didn't occur to me. Thanks. Good to think of for next time."
Yeah Karl, I have a small needle nose pliers with tapered, round, smooth jaws that I use for a heat sink while gently heating the part with a pencil soldering iron.
~ Musical Progress: None ~
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Author: BartHx
Date: 2016-03-15 05:57
Grinding down a larger screwdriver in order to take advantage of the larger handle could give more torque. However, in doing so, either don't let it get hot enough to draw the temper or re-temper the tip once you are finished grinding.
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Author: knotty
Date: 2016-03-15 18:59
A long time ago when I was making wood plane blades, I used oil hardening tool steel. Briefly, I first shaped, ground, the profile. Then brought it to a bright orange or cherry and immersed it into oil.
After it's cooled, you gently heat the hard blue metal in a oven until you see colors appear and somewhere in the "straw" color is what I wanted. Forgot exactly to what Rockwell hardness.
~ Musical Progress: None ~
Post Edited (2016-03-15 19:00)
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2016-03-15 19:44
Once hardened, paper it up so it's back to shiny steel again and you'll see the colours change much easier as you temper it to the colour you want it.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: WhitePlainsDave
Date: 2016-03-18 16:27
Karl--I'll need to ask my married family and get back to you. Many are screwed too tightly and experts in the field.
Post Edited (2016-03-18 16:28)
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