 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: A. Brown
Date: 1999-04-20 00:21
Concerning Robert Schumann's Op. 73, Fantasy-Piece for Clarinet and Piano, can anyone tell me the key signature of the piano part as Schumann ORIGINALLY wrote it?
Anyone know some history about the piece? How many keys were on the clarinet it was written for?
Thanks.
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Author: Dee
Date: 1999-04-20 01:55
Composed in 1849.
Written for A clarinet.
Concert (piano) key signatures
1 - C
2 - A changing to F and returning to A
3 - A changing to C and returning to A
Have no idea how many keys the clarinet had at that time. I believe there were several key systems available or under development.
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Author: ted
Date: 1999-04-20 02:48
I read in Jack Brymer's book, "The Clarinet," that this piece should not be played on the Bb clarinet, though some publisers have transposed the piece for Bb. Although he does no specify, his reasoning may be the fact that on the "A" clarinet, most of the second and third movements have no flats or sharps. On the "Bb" however, you have five sharps for most of those two movements.
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Author: Katherine Pincock
Date: 1999-04-20 13:24
THe original version was designed for the A clarinet, so if at all possible, it would be good to follow the composer's intentions. So if you can, use an A clarinet for this piece.
In terms of history, this is more general stuff, but I found it useful when I (sort of) worked on this piece. First of all, Schumann was a composer in the Romantic period, which was based around the expression of individual emotions. To accomplish this, dynamics are extreme and careful phrasing is a must. Second of all, as a person Schumann apparently had three other personalities: Florestan, Eusebius, and Raro. Each represented a facet of him: the poetic young dreamer, the fiery, passionate man, and the wise old master. These three personalities surface in this piece, so look for them and try to express that sort of personality when they appear. I found it helpful to create a small story for each movement; that made the expression much easier for me. Hope this helps!
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Author: Ken Shaw
Date: 1999-04-20 19:06
ted wrote:
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I read in Jack Brymer's book, "The Clarinet," that this piece should not be played on the Bb clarinet
Ted -
The Schumann Fantasy Pieces are such glorious music! Some of the best we have, and drenched in late-romantic emotion. Schumann published them alternatively for clarinet or cello, and there are many very fine cello performances -- maybe more than there are on clarinet.
They are written for A clarinet, but the first piece in particular is often transposed on Bb, to avoid a single nasty slur -- the one from top line F up to C# and then down to C. This has to be done with a big crescendo, and the C# is prone to crack. Also, the transition from the clarion to the altissimo and back is very difficult to do without a "click" that breaks the legato. At this spot, there are two consecutive clicks between the F and the C#, and the C# and the C. One, you can live with, but two in a row become obvious and distracting.
Transposed on the Bb clarinet, the interval is from E to C, and then to B, all in the clarion and on average better notes on the Bb instrument than on the A.
Also, later in the movement there's an octave leap from clarion Eb to altissimo Eb, which is better as D to D on the Bb clarinet.
Therefore, despite Brymer's advice, perhaps half of the players who have recorded the Fantasy Pieces have played the first piece on the Bb clarinet. Reginald Kell, on his Decca LP, used the Bb for all three pieces.
The clarinets used in Schumann's time were fingered like the modern German system. The C on the second ledger line above the staff was played played with the left middle finger down, and the C# above was played with all fingers up, in the clarion rather than the altissimo. Also, the high Eb was played with just the right index finger down, so the leap up to it was to a good note.
Playing the Fantasy Pieces on a Boehm system clarinet is thus a compromise to begin with, and the transposition to the Bb instrument is at least a partial solution.
Also, of course, Schumann's piano was not as loud as the modern grand. The clarinet, too, was softer, but the balance was more natural. When your accompanist uses a modern Steinway, he/she has to be careful to keep the volume in check. When this is done, however, it's very difficult to get the passionate surge that's essential to bring off this music. If possible, your accompanist should use a 5 foot or 6 foot grand, rather than a 9 foot.
Have fun. It's grand music.
Ken Shaw
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Author: ted
Date: 1999-04-20 19:19
Thanks, Ken. That was very informative.
Now I want to listen to the first movement in particular on my recordings to determine which instrument the performer is using.
Also my assumption in the past was that one would choose one clarinet over the other to avoid "nasty" key signatures. But I see that there is much more to it.
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Author: Mark P.
Date: 1999-04-20 19:29
Just a short note in regards to the type of clarinet that would have been used in 1849. THe 12 or 13 key Mueller would have been the state of the art at that time, The first Boehms were being built aroud that time but they would not have been common.
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Author: Hiroshi
Date: 1999-04-21 05:44
I think there are a few soloist who play original clarinets and issue their CDs.One of them may be Edward Neimann. Although I do not have Schuman's Fantasy played by the original clarinet used at that time, I have a CD of Weber.To my impression,the instrument plays very brighter than present instruments.FYI.
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Author: Hiroshi
Date: 1999-04-21 23:32
Charles Niedich was the correct player I would like to quote.
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Author: John Dean
Date: 1999-04-23 22:16
Has anybody tried the Music Minus One version of this piece which is transposed for Bb or A clarinet. Seems good practice and a clean recording.
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Author: Laura
Date: 1999-05-02 17:03
I discovered a new(ish!) edition of the Fantasiestucke by Alan Hacker and Richard Platt, pub.1985, which they have called 'Soireestucke'. They have made several small but significant discoveries, including one that the two tonic chords that finish the second movement were not actually included in the 1st edition. Hacker says in the foreword: "those chords did exist - and so dramatic transition and relationship was restored and strengthened between the 2nd and 3rd movements". Basically the edition follows Schumann's 1st 'thoughts', which includes great assymetry, slightly different harmonies, and intensify the emotional instability (IMHO anyway!). He puts forward the idea that the changes made in the next edition (the Fantasiestucke) may not have been Schumann's anyway.
He also has deciphered an 'almost illegible instruction' that the 2nd and 3rd mvts be transposed from C clarinet to A.
After all that, has anyone else heard/ played from this ediion? What do you think?
Ok, I've talked too much!
Bye! Laura
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