 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: ClarinettyBetty
Date: 2016-03-04 19:43
I am looking to develop my own sound, and my professor said I need to listen to others and emulate their good characteristics to help bring out my own positive qualities and help me work on my negatives. (That is a synopsis of a half-hour conversation about soul-searching, knowing EXACTLY what I want to come out of my horn before I play it, etc.)
Who do you listen to, and why? I have an hour commute one-way and dedicated this morning's drive to Stanley Drucker. His musical phrasing is outstanding in the Weber Concertino and I was quite impressed with his staccato passages in the Nielsen.
Other recommendations to listen to? By the way, I love jazz and listen to Artie Shaw, Woody Herman, Benny Goodman, and Eddie Daniels' jazz stuff for fun, but I'm not looking for jazz recommendations right now.
Thank you in advance!
CB
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Author: Clarineteer
Date: 2016-03-04 19:50
The great Bill Evans played his piano using saxophone lines. Very unique sound. So playing the clarinet using another instruments lines other than a woodwind would be very interesting.
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2016-03-04 20:17
There are lots of really musical players to listen to: Karl Leister, Andreas Ottensamer, Wenzel Fuchs, Fabrizio Meloni etc.
I think though the best thing to do is to have the sound of a decent player in a live setting in your head. Go to as many recitals, master classes, concerts as you can get your hands on (even recitals at the local universities and colleges given as degree requirements). This will serve as the basis for the sounds you hear in recordings.......which are woefully inadequate in their representation of what a clarinet actually sounds like in person.
...............Paul Aviles
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Author: CMM
Date: 2016-03-04 20:18
My personal favorites are Martin Fröst (especially the Brahms sonatas), Anthony McGill, and David Shifrin (Brahms Quintet). All pretty different tonal concepts, but all uniquely beautiful sounds, in my opinion.
Joshua Anderson
Chamber Music Michigan
http://www.chambermusicmichigan.com
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Author: Ursa
Date: 2016-03-04 21:13
I'm with Paul: Go for live performances.
Recorded music is problematic due to the overprocessing generally employed by recording engineers these days. Compression, equalization, effects loops, and the like all go towards that lush, "wet" sound that's been in vogue for years for vocal music. Unfortunately, this sonic tomfoolery just mangles the delicate harmonic nuances of clarinets and trumpets. Bah!
The LPs and reel-to-reel tapes from the beginning of the stereophonic era tend to lack all this. Just two microphones, a level control, and a recording machine--total acoustic honesty. Sure, they sound dry and not very airy compared to the CDs of today. Listen actively, however, and you'll hear a much more lifelike clarinet section.
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Author: Sylvain
Date: 2016-03-04 21:18
I think there is a bit of uniformization of tonal concepts that started with globalization of music recordings.
One interesting exercise is to get a hold of older recordings and be exposed to very different ideas.
Karl Leister
Jacques Lancelot
Gervase de Peyer
Thea King
Giono Cioffi
Daniel Bonade
Ralph MacLane
the later Harold Wright and Robert Marcellus
For more recent players:
Alessandro Carbonare
Paul Meyer
Andrew Marriner
Michael Collins
Andreas Ottensamer
Corrado Giuffredi
Ricardo Morales
Richard Stolzmann
--
Sylvain Bouix <sbouix@gmail.com>
Post Edited (2016-03-04 23:00)
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Author: Ursa
Date: 2016-03-04 21:51
The pamphlet that came with one of my Boosey & Hawkes clarinets states thusly:
"21. While your new Boosey & Hawkes clarinet is constructed to the highest degree of precision that is humanly possible and of the finest woods obtainable which are then aged and treated with the utmost care, to avoid the possibility of the development of cracks and checks in the body of your new clarinet, it is advisable to listen to recordings of Reginald Kell while oiling the bore of your instrument."
No cracks yet.
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Author: fernie51296
Date: 2016-03-04 22:30
I actually really love the way Olivier Patey sounds. Along with the whole clarinet section of the Royal Concertgebouw Orchestra. Look up Clarinetists Royal Concertgebouw Orchestra Amsterdam on Facebook and you will see they have lots of great videos on their page.
I also really like the playing of Karl Liester, Andreas Ottensamer, and Wenzel Fuchs.
Clarinetists who I think have a more "modern" sound would be Martin Fröst and Kari Kriikku. They both have wonderful technique.
Fernando
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Author: Bob Bernardo
Date: 2016-03-04 23:44
I kinda think the list is endless!
Designer of - Vintage 1940 Cicero Mouthpieces and the La Vecchia mouthpieces
Yamaha Artist 2015
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Author: locke9342
Date: 2016-03-05 02:59
Im going to highjack this thread a bit... but how do you listen to your music? Obviously live would be ideal, but not everyone can get that.
What is more important the source (youtube or a flac), headphones (I have a few studio grade headphones), a combination? Especially when I am looking to get a reference I want to make sure I am listening to the right things
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Author: dorjepismo ★2017
Date: 2016-03-05 03:02
Lots of great suggestions. It can be good to ask not only what kind of sound you like and want, but also what kinds of things you want to do musically. When I was a student, people talked about Marcellus and Wright a little bit like they talk about Plato and Aristotle, or maybe Bordeaux and Burgundy, but it seemed to me, especially with Wright, that his sound was driven by his music. It needed to be that way to do what he wanted to do. A good example of that is his and Walt's YouTube recording of the Strauss "Duet Concertino."
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Author: Clarineteer
Date: 2016-03-05 11:17
In the mid to late 1940's my Uncle Bill had an apartment next to the great Mr. Ralph McClane and he said he would hear amazing playing constantly.
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Author: seabreeze
Date: 2016-03-05 17:46
I wouldn't want to miss Shirley Brill and Natalie Parker. There is nothing over-homogenized about their sound or playing style. Both keep a strong ring and vibrancy in the tone without getting buzzy or reedy. I especially like Brill's clean and efforless reading of the Francaix Clarinet Concerto and Parker's balanced and elegant performace of the Weber Clarinet Quintet, both on YouTube.
See YouTube Shirley Brill Franccaix Clarinet Concerto
and YouTube Natalie Parker Weber Clarinet Quintet
Post Edited (2016-03-05 23:43)
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2016-03-05 18:26
locke9342 wrote:
> Im going to highjack this thread a bit... but how do you listen
> to your music? Obviously live would be ideal, but not everyone
> can get that.
>
I'm interested to know where people live who have no source of live performance available to listen to. Maybe not in your immediate locale, but perhaps within a couple of hours' drive? In the U.S. most cities, even quite small ones, have at least part-time orchestras. In PA, for example, there are symphonies in Harrisburg, Lancaster, Reading, Hummelstown, Erie and many others. Many universities have student orchestras whose members are taught by often very accomplished adjunct faculty.
The ones I have in mind aren't necessarily the major orchestras with salary structures that attract the really top talent, but many boast very competent players who make an eclectic living as performers and teachers (not to mention arrangers, composers and other musical occupations). You may not hear the likes of the players so far mentioned, but in terms of sound and playing approach, you very well may. Clarinet sound is just not that difficult to produce and lots of players can serve as useful models.
One or two trips a year to hear live concerts somewhere would go a long way for anyone trying to build a realistic clarinet concept, even if the travel time is a little uncomfortable and the trip wouldn't become a weekly or even monthly event. For instance, even in PA, I don't think anyone is more than a few hours' drive from Pittsburgh, Philadelphia, New York, Buffalo, Rochester.
I'm not suggesting that anyone throw his streaming music sources or MP3 or CD player into a dumpster. You can get valuable insights from listening to good recordings. But hearing live sound is every bit as important even at moderate inconvenience.
What does "Obviously live would be ideal, but not everyone can get that" mean?
Karl
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Author: TomS
Date: 2016-03-05 18:27
As a the recording engineer for the Arkansas Symphony Orchestra for 23 years, I can tell you that the best, most accurate recordings that I could make, was a rough approximation of the real performance. This is especially true, for me, listening to quality clarinet playing. No comparison.
You MUST get away from the stereo speakers, when possible, and hear real performances. It is a ear opening experience that will stick in you head much longer that a recording.
There is no substitute for LIVE MUSIC! Support your local ensembles and attend concerts regularly ...
Tom
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2016-03-05 21:57
I love paquito d'rivera's sound. I also love Jon manasse (previously mentioned), and I really like (although it's not my ideal) Andrew marriner. This is based off of recordings that I have purchased front these folks.
But for my ideal sound and what I strive to and would love to sound like, Paquito D'rivera wins hands down.
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2016-03-05 23:28
TomS,
Could you send me an e-mail (I'm listed)? I am presently studying recording engineering and will be plying my trade in the next year and a half.
Tracking orchestras is completely different than the rest of the industry. If you could just give me some pointers and ways to get started with large classical ensembles I would really appreciate it!
.............Paul Aviles (Full Sail University class of 2017)
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Author: TomS
Date: 2016-03-06 17:59
Paul
Will contact you.
Tom
Post Edited (2016-03-06 22:12)
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Author: locke9342
Date: 2016-03-06 17:59
"Obviously live would be ideal, but not everyone can get that"
Means that I would like to listen to live music, but it's not always feasible as you said.
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2016-03-06 18:28
locke9342 wrote:
> "Obviously live would be ideal, but not everyone can get that"
>
> Means that I would like to listen to live music, but it's not
> always feasible as you said.
But when people here say this, as you did, as a reason for relying on recordings as models, are they (you) truly in a place where live performance is completely inaccessible (without a major trip by air or ocean liner)?
What is "feasible?" A single experience of hearing a live concert or a live house band at a jazz club would stick in a person's mind, perhaps, all the more clearly because of its novelty. Making an annual or semiannual event out of it might be more than enough, along with recorded models, to inspire a stronger concept.
Karl
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Author: fernie51296
Date: 2016-03-06 19:26
Seabreeze I totally agree with you on Natalie Parker's sound. I heard her last year while in San Francisco and her sound is absolutely beautiful. Lots of resonance.
Fernando
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Author: Philip Caron
Date: 2016-03-06 20:46
What constitutes a major trip depends on resources available. Recordings are free (on YouTube, about which a different discussion might be had.)
I've been to numerous concerts in my life, and some featured prominent clarinetists or other instrumentalists. The experience of sitting there in an audience, seeing and hearing performers in person, is invariably memorable. However, I don't feel vast quantities of musical data automatically inhere to live performances but not to recordings.
I'll agree that, if the concert situation allows, you can hear some tonal qualities and even some musical nuances that recordings don't pick up. But good recordings pick up most of it. Even old recordings pick up a great deal, enough to recognize which performances are musically great, or good, or forgettable - and, on reflection and repetition, why you as a listener feel that way. Even crappy reproductions can give you a lot.
My favorite clarinet sounds - Wright, Morales, etc. - are shared by many other music lovers. But I've only heard those performers on recordings; the qualities I like were audible still. The last clarinetist I heard in concert was Charles Neidich playing Bartok's Contrasts, at Marlboro several years ago. I was impressed indeed, and remember his facility, his control, his sound, the tempi, the problems of the violinist - but I would have heard all that on a recording. I have several Neidich cd's, and his sound as I remember it is well represented on them.
So, go to concerts when you can, you'll be glad you did. But also listen to recordings, especially of the great artists you'll probably never get to hear in live performance. It's extremely worthwhile.
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Author: seabreeze
Date: 2016-03-06 21:40
Yes, it's a bit inconvenient these days to hear Louis Cahuzac, Harold Wright, August Perier, Ulysse Delecluse, Ralph McLane, Robert Marcellus, and Mitchell Lurie live, since the're all dead. In the absence of a very receptive seance or time-travel machine, I'd recommend their recordings. I never tire of hearing Cahuzac's recording of the Hindemith Clarinet Concerto made when he was 76 years old. Especially that last movement rondo where he just bubbles merrily along with no sign of fatigue, his clarinet ringing out like a bell.
Fernando,
Natalie Parker is doing more than just keeping the grand Buffet R13 intensly- focused yet dark "ringtone" sound alive; she is giving it new luster and remodelling it for the 21st century. Do you have any idea of exactly what equipment she's using (clarinet model, mouthpiece)? She seems to be playing an Ishimori ligature (solid silver?) and some model Buffet. When the "American sound" sounds like that, I'd personally take it over any of the Oehler-style alternatives and the cocobolo stuff. But, alas, it doesn't usually sound like that.
Post Edited (2016-03-07 00:25)
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Author: locke9342
Date: 2016-03-06 21:49
Karl I completely agree with you, but I think you are not understanding me. I didn't mean that one should never attempt to see live music (I got to see julian bliss recently), but that when such luxury are not available and you want to listen to music, what should you do.
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Author: tylerleecutts
Date: 2016-03-06 21:55
Harold Wright, Stanley Drucker, Anthony Gigliotti, Robert Marcellus, Richie Halwey, Mark Nuccio, and Anthony McGill, among others are on my short list.
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Author: Matt74
Date: 2016-03-06 23:59
Clarinet sound conception is something I have a hard time with. The classical clarinet, to my ear, often tends to be a a bit inflexible and uniform. To my ear, the older classical recordings I've heard emphasize an edgier tone, but part of that must be the recording. I love some of the more recent german players, but in pairs they remind me of an accordion (literally). Most jazz players (at least the old ones) spread the tone a lot.
My favorite is Martin Frost. I like him because he's very vocal and expressive, but also compact.
I think it's hard too, depending on what equipment you are using. I suffered for years with a saxophone set up that was the opposite of what I wanted.
I think the thing is that you have to think about what you are playing. You want the notes to be uniform so that the throat tones don't stick out, and can play the same melody the same way anywhere on the horn. At the same time, you can use it's tonal qualities to your advantage, like bigger notes at the bottom, and more penetrating ones at the top.
The one thing that I notice in person about all good reed players is that their sound is BIG. No matter what they sound like, there's a lot of it. I don't necessarily mean loud, but resonant and with good projection.
- Matthew Simington
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Author: fernie51296
Date: 2016-03-07 05:05
Seabreeze
Unfortunately, I was sitting too far away to see what buffet model she was using. I do wish more clarinetists leaned towards a "clear" rather than a "dark" one. Whatever your sound is, it's always best if it's clear and vibrant. Her sound is definitely smooth although I don't know if I'd describe it as dark. But then again, what really is a dark clarinet sound? I'm not so sure myself.
Fernando
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Author: ned
Date: 2016-03-07 05:15
In no particular order:
Johnny Dodds
Omer Simeon
Sammy Rimington
George Lewis
Barney Bigard
Jimmy Noone
Irving Fazola
Kenny Davern
...there are some others who don't come readily to mind.
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Author: faltpihl ★2017
Date: 2016-03-07 18:53
Right now I'm mostly listening to:
Sabine Meyer
Wolfgang Meyer
Sebastian Manz
Andreas Ottensamer
Sharon Kam
Regards
Peter
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Author: ClarinettyBetty
Date: 2016-03-08 01:41
OP:
Thank you all for these wonderful responses! I live in Dallas and have the opportunity to hear the Dallas Wind Symphony, Dallas Symphony Orchestra, Dallas Opera, and Fort Worth Symphony. I've been to a lot of live performances, and they are wonderful, but the recordings were specifically for my commute to and from work each day to help me.
My professor plays with me in each lesson (duets and demonstrations), and there are many attributes of his sound that I'd love to mimic, but his point was to listen to MANY good artists and pick and choose what I like and adopt those attributes, rather than blindly mimic him because he is my teacher. Not that I'd mind sounding like him. But still, I have no aversion to live performances, besides cost maybe.
I've heard a lot of these names and I'm excited to look up recordings of the others I haven't listened to yet. Youtube is an amazing thing!
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